There is strength in numbers!
If you are a parent, teacher, educator, employer, or citizen who is frustrated with math education in schools and if you support this initiative, please leave your name, city/town, and email address in the comment form below. (Your email address will not be displayed publicly.)
To sign, scroll to the end of the comments.
If you wish to leave a comment that is supportive of this initiative, in addition to your name in the comment form, you are welcome to do so. However, if you wish to discuss other issues which negatively affect math education in Canada, that are not listed as one of our “key objectives”, please visit the Other important issues page.
Please forward the link wisemath.org to your colleagues, friends, and other parents and encourage them to sign.
Note that by joining, you will not be required to do any work for WISE Math. However, you will be kept updated on important developments. Remember that the greater the number of names listed, the greater the likelihood that we will be successful in strengthening math education in western Canada and, more generally, in all of Canada.
Before posting a comment please read the following: WISE Math wishes to promote open discussion and debate on the issues we address — but this blog is not the place for that; our object here is to present an alternative to the controlling perspectives on these matters within the education community. If you wish to engage in debate with us then we encourage you to do so publicly, in open live forums, letters to the editors of newspapers and so on. Comments clearly intended to be part of such a debate may, and most likely will, not be approved.
My friend (a high school teacher of English) of thirty years ago told me then that the students coming out of high school were horribly unprepared for entering the work force. He warned me to be careful in hiring people with high school diplomas dated after 1984. These days I hear many stories from business owners and their frustration with low skilled employees. Time to get back to rigorous grade school / high school education that focuses on the basics: reading, writing and ‘rithmatic.
My daughter’s math education has been so frustrating. Our children have become part of an educational experiment, and many will suffer for their whole lives because of it.
Deb Kurdydyk Wpg. MB.
I have spent countless nights helping my daughter (Grade 6) with her math homework, but more importantly, with the math they are NOT teaching her. She does not know her timestables – not her fault, but I don’t want her to end up like the Apple “Genius” we encountered last year that could not, after over 10 minutes, make change for a simple cash purchase. Forget issues with university math; we are not giving our kids even the most basic math skills they need to function in society!
Winnipeg, MB
As a mother of a two boys (age 1 & 5), I strongly support this initiative.
Jody Branch, Okotoks, AB, mother of an eight year old girl and a six year old boy. We do extra work at home to fill in the gaps and also simply to practice. With hardly any homework, how are children suppose to practice their new skills or solidify their knowledge?
Stephen Atkinson, winnipeg, Manitoba. Spent my career as scientist working with mathematics. Struggling to teach this ridiculous new curriculum to my grade 4 child who comes home from school completely confused and demoralized.
A call to action to all who support this initiative: choose your votes carefully the next time you are able to exercise your democratic rights, and cast a vote to elect representatives in your local school division board and provincial legislature who commit to making changes to the curriculum.
You can’t vote with your wallets, but you can vote.
“Consumer” of Manitoba’s primary, elementary, secondary and post-secondary education services
Parent to a future “consumer” of these same services
Nancy Macdonald, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Grade 4 student struggling with math in my household.
Rheanna Costen. Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Lisa, Brandon MB, struggling to teach a grade 4 student multiplication tables
Jason Boychuk, Calgary AB, 42 years old – and still knows his times tables without thinking. 8 x 7 was always the hardest! :)
Saskatchewan
My frustration is immense. I thought my daughter was having trouble with math. Took her to expensive tutor and discovered her trouble was with comprehension in reading. Taught her math the old way and she excelled. Worked on her comprehension and all is good. She is in grade 7 and has no recall of sime multiplication tables. That is something you always take with you. It was tamped into my memory. Used all the time.
I really can’t stand how they have turned a simple math question into a half a page long answer. That is not the real world.
Lee Hergott Saskatoon SK
Frank McGilliray Sault Ste. Marie Ontario, parent of four children 11 , 13 , 15 and 18. The two older children are fairly proficient in the basic academics however the two younger children are not. For example my daughter can’t cursive write nor do long division and my son barely understands the basic concepts of simple math, this I blame on the curriculum.
Not only is the over all curriculum distorted but the methods of instruction also.
The curriculum appears to be geared more toward behavior modification and character development rather than the imparting of knowledge and the mastery of skills in grammar, cursive hand writing and arithmetic. However as important as this issue is – the methods of instruction concern me even more. Group Learning is now being applied to all elementary grades and dominates over independent learning. Recommendations by Educational psychologists state group learning should only occupy a portion of the school day but is in fact now being used all the time. This in essence deeply affects an individuals ability to perform tasks independently and robs the individual of independence and thus creates independence toward others for his or his success. Group learning is more customary to countries like China, Japan or Taiwan who function under a social system of collectivism whereas the western parts of the world such the USA , Canada and Briton function under a social system of individualism. These two contrasts between these two systems are like oil and water.
Collectivism in the classroom plays a significant role in the overall problems Canadian culture will have to endure in the future. The curriculum developers are those individuals who are responsible for this mess and a re-evaluation of this process needs to be addressed before the day comes when the culture of Canada is significantly altered from its current constitutional status found within the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and civil bill of rights, which in essence acknowledges the individual to be an autonomous entity rather which is not the case found under collectivism.
Education is the key to the preservation of the virtue of liberty, democracy and freedom that at one time was important in this country. An ignorant civilian population cannot possibly understand these principles and therefore threatens the very lives and culture of all Canadians.
[Hi Frank, your thoughts are much appreciated. WISE Math currently focusses our energies primarily on matters of curriculum and teacher training but, in today's educational climate where certain strong ideologies and fads hold sway it is nearly impossible to separate these from pedagogical issues such as you raise. We may articulate the issues you raise in slightly different terms, but your thoughts as read resonate with many parents from whom we hear. The matter of group learning is of concern, partly for the reasons you state but also because of the social dynamics. Many children simply do not cope well with group work. In particular, you'll find most strong students resent being put into groups, and most weak students are intimidated by the prospect of appearing clueless in a jury of peers. Many others simply have social handicaps or difficulty communicating, and this approach merely magnifies the degree to which they are disadvantaged. Further, in classes where group learning is the main paradigm, far less material can be covered, less consistently, and in less depth. The value of a lesson depends far too much of the luck of the draw: whose group one lands in. This is just large-scale social experimentation, and I personally get angry when I think about it. You are right that there are cultural differences with the Asian systems, and while your distinction between "collectivism" and "individualism" is not wrong, it is probably an oversimplification. In fact, the Asian approach to mathematical education places a very strong onus on the individual, and his/her responsibility to family and community (another oversimplification). It is common for apologists of the current educational fads to cherry-pick some aspect of some Asian system -- such as group work, or starting lessons with an open-ended problem -- that happens to resemble some approach they are promoting, and magnify and distort it to the point that any intrinsic wisdom one might glean is obscured. And, as you observe, cultural differences alone ought to counsel caution in making inferences for Western classrooms based upon social relationships observed in those of Asia. --WISE Math (RC)]
Valentino Galati Bolton Ontario
Concerned parent.
Winston Candow, Whitby, On. Grandfather of 10,all in school & all struggling to some degree with the new math. I strongly support this.
Barry Waldner, Parent, and Math Teacher, Manitoba
I am a math teacher in a small school. As a Math teacher I find it hard to find meaningful Professional Development in the field of Mathematics. Most times when there is a notice about a math inservice I need only read the first few sentences and notice that it is sponsored by a textbook manufacturer and although it says that it is not meant to promote any one series over another, attending such sessions has proven otherwise. I have attended great math sessions (for the first ten minutes) when the focus suddenly shifted to a marketing inservice where the presenter (usually one of the co-authors of a textbook) suddenly becomes a marketer of a textbook. Its not that I can’t appreciate them trying to sell a textbook, especially when they were an author, I can see how they would think that it is the perfect textbook. Math however is more universal, it cannot be taught from one textbook or resource. It is a life skill and I feel it should be approached as such. When we go for a drivers license, MPI doesn’t just give us one, we have to learn about driving, practice driving, and then are tested on our ability to drive. If we do not practice and do not master the art of driving we will not get a driver’s license. The same applies to math. Textbooks are set up so that the teacher is the “keeper of knowledge” and we are expected to just spew it out for students, or they take the other dramatic approach where students are expected to teach themselves through “discovery”. Students need to be guided to master topics. If they cannot add and subtract, then they need to master these skills before they are asked to find perimeter; If they cannot multiply or divide what sense is there in trying to get them to understand equivalent fractions?
[Very good points, Barry. Your last point concerns "just in time learning" where students don't learn a skill until it's needed. Of course this means one must cram learning of elementary and advanced things into a single lesson, violating common sense. What you say about Pro D being a captive-audience sales presentation appears, unfortunately, to be the norm. What is supposed to help teachers in the classroom turns out in many instances to be more mercenary in nature. The frustration only increases when you learn what these publisher representatives get paid (by the ministry, your school and MTS): for some of the more popular clinicians the going rate is $10,000 for a 2 day workshop. And that is before your school goes out and orders hundreds of their overpriced publications. It's a multimillion-dollar industry. -- WISE MATH (RC)]
Jared Brandt, Regina, Saskatchewan, High school mathematics teacher.
I feel that students are being pushed too early into “understanding.” Instead, math should be based primarily on facts and algorithms until a later age, when understanding is built. While I like the ideas of the new curricula in later years, I believe that the “old” curricula were better for the early development. As a high school teacher, I see many frustrated students, who do not know how to multiply or divide (especially large numbers), but instead rely on calculators. In spite of the theoretical approach in elementary school, these children do not come to high school with the necessary skills to understand their own knowledge.
[Very well put, Jared. Indeed, this is exactly the problem. A very large American study some years back compared the performance of approaches in which skills are emphasized against several approaches in which cognitive understanding is emphasized, and it was found that those systems adequately supporting skills development did far better than those that focussed solely on "understanding". Shockingly, none of the latter systems even did as well as the status quo -- students learning under these systems actually performed more poorly than the general population on cognition outcomes, whereas those learning under systems emphasizing knowledge and skills. If this interest you, google "Project Follow Through". -- Wise Math (RC)]
I am so frustrated with this Math Makes Sense program! My son is in grade 5 and has not been taught the basics of multiplication and division yet is expected to use 20 different ways to come up with answer that he could find easily if just taught the simple old fashioned way to multiply and divide!
I am in total support and wish you all the best in changing the way maths is now taught. I hope teachers don’t see this as an attack on them but if they require more maths education perhaps their salaries should reflect that.
I live in Brisbane, Australia and we have exactly the same issue here. They don’t care if the answer is correct but that the student can display deeper level thinking. How can they without the basics. My bright girls are failing maths. My grade 4 daughter still doesn’t know her times tables and I’ve been told I have to teach them to her as rote learning is a waste of class time! I only wish we had a lobby group like yours and I wondered if you could give me any advice as to how to get one up and running?
Tempe Laver
Hi Tempe. Welcome. Starting an initiative like this one is a matter of will. You don’t need many resources initially. In the U.S. there were numerous groups of parents with shared concerns who began such groups. The ones that took off, however, and began to have an effect on educational policy, generally included professional mathematicians. Our initiative is a little bit the reverse of this: WISE Math is founded by mathematicians and others have signed on in support. Because we are subject-matter experts we can convey the message somewhat more effectively than others. In our view, however, this issue belongs to the general public and it is unfortunate that we have to wave our credentials around to be taken seriously. Anyone who is well-informed can address these issues. As we say in our intro to this page, however, there is strength in numbers, and simply organizing will get you started. You’ll find people who’ve been lonely warriors for years and they will come with surprising skills and personal resources, quite relieved to have comrades-in-arms. You’ll also find that many just had no idea where to start. Read some of our resources linked on our pages. Especially the NMAP report, and then check out the resources at NYChold, which are quite extensive. If you’re hoping to bring mathematicians on board I especially recommend the two videos prominently featured on the NYChold main page — watch them yourself and use them to introduce the subject (it explains some of the basics in terms that will connect with mathematicians). Compare what you learn in those sources with actual things you can document in your own schools. Then get articulate about what you object to and advocate for. Write an op ed; start and publicize an internet petition. Put up an attractive web page. Then just put one foot in front of another. Don’t try to go it alone though. And send us updates from time to time. –WISE Math (RC)
Montreal
I fail to see how this math helps a child at all.My daughter is in grade 6 now ,and she is struggling.How can a child progress in math when the basics are not taught.She hasn’t even grasped her times tables.I’m only 42 and trying to help her with math every night becomes very frustrating.If our teachers in Ontario make the highest wages(overpaid)why are so many children struggling. It needs to be changed back to the basics before a child can strive at math.Signed a very frustrated father.
Glad to see this issue begging addressed.
Natalia Ensor, Clyde River, NS
Lethbridge, AB
My oldest son – now in grade 12 with an 80% average, barely passed math 10 two years ago. My second son is now in math 10 and will likely not pass the class at this point. Unless the teacher ‘works the numbers’ so to speak, so he can go onto Math 21. The material in the current math 10 curriculum are things I remember taking in math 30 and math 31! I loved math when I was in school, but I don’t remember much of it anymore (it’s been over 20 years) and I simply don’t know how to help him. We’re both feeling helpless at this point! The system is broken and something needs to be done to fix it!
Michelle Carlson, Brandon MB. Parent of 4 children.
From Brandon, Manitoba mother of one, aged 12, Grade 7.
Lana Russell
Brandon,MB
Parent of an 11yr old and a 7yr old was shocked tonight by my sons inability to complete basic division.
I was very surprised that I had to drill multiplication at home for my stepchildren. I wish school focus was more on the basics.
Leslie Drohan
Brandon, Mb.
Derek Buttery, Alexander, Manitoba.
Father to 3 boys {10, 7 and 5 yrs old}.
It’s not just mathematics that needs review, but maths is an excellent place to start. Kudos and thank you for doing this.
Julianne Pabuayon, Souris, MB
I strongly support this initiative!
Anything that makes teachers and others who are responsible for educating our young people should be publicly accountable. I don’t know for sure, but it is my feeling that our education system has ‘dumbed down’ during the last 10 years. We need to get rid of the ‘no fail’ and ‘no zero’ policies. Why else forced the U of Manitoba to create a University 1? People should be required to be able to read their Grade 12 diploma before being allowed to move on.
I agree with you 100%. Our education system has definitely been dumbed down. I taught math for a mere 2.5 years and was so frustrated with the system I had to teach under, I had to quit. I was asked to pass kids who wouldn’t even try and the no zero policy is a joke. That policy was initiated with the thought that if time pressure was removed, more students would do a better job on their assignments and it would reduce stress for struggling students. The policy has completely backfired. We are creating students who have absolutely no time management skills. Very few students are using the opportunity to do a better job on their assignments, rather, they are continuously putting assignments off in all their courses until they they are so completely swamped that they either give up or complete only the bare minimum just to “get it done”. Half the time they can’t even remember what the assignment was about by the time they get to it and so learn very little by doing the assignment at all. It is especially detrimental in math because one concept builds on the next and if we can’t force them to get an assignment done on time they haven’t got a hope of understanding what comes next.
Dion Wiseman, Brandon, Manitoba
Brittany Bergwall, Brandon MB
Thank you for the wonderful resources listed here. Looking at the grade 1 & 2 curriculum I was floored that things I though should be standard practice are not even taught anymore. We do math at home now and I am always looking for extra resources so thank you. I will support you in any way I can, because nothing is more important than our children’s education!
Amazing! I am in BC and struggle with the exact same problem with my son, who is now in Grade 5. I have been feeling very alone in my frustration. We do much more complex math based on the traditional concepts, which I thankfully learned, and mastered very well, in Eastern Europe. He finds “our” math much easier… Wait until they teach them in Grade 5 how to solve basic equations – the Math Makes sense textbook teaches them only one method: “Guess.” There are two pages of examples about how to “guess” the right answer! If at first you fail, guess again. As much as I have honestly tried, I cannot call this math – this is pure “guesstimating”. As I tell my son, I would never trust him to build a bridge using the math he is learning in school here!
Can you please, PLEASE extend this initiative to BC? Math education is a disaster, and a tremendous disservice to our children and our society. I am happy I can help my child, though I feel I am doing the job that the school should be doing.
[Actually our initiative covers "the (Canadian) West" as the name suggests. We have fewer contacts and activity in B.C., which is why you see us reporting largely on things happening in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. We hope to extend our work to all places where WNCP has found a foothold, but it helps to have local organizers since each province has local issues and must be dealt with separately on a political basis. Those in B.C. wishing to organize are encouraged to contact the small group hoping to form a B.C. Chapter of Wise Math. -- WISE Math (RC) ]
Brianne Daudlin, Medicine Hat (AB).
Brian & Barb Daudlin, Medicine Hat, Alberta. Watched our three children drudge through Math 10, 20, and 30 without realizing or acquiring those important math/life skills. We are eye witnesses of the shortcomings.
Stuart Shanker, Gore’s Landing, ON.
In the words of Sri Ramakrishna: “math builds character.”
It appears the new method of teaching Math was someone’s attempt to “fix” something that “was not broken” . Is the so-called “fix” or new method of teaching Math breaking the will or desire of students to learn Math because it is so confusing? Get back to the basics – I learned Math under the old method and it served me well in University and throughout my career.
Extremely frustrated BC Mom of a 4th grader, and you’re about to find out why. Here’s an example of what my daughter and I dealt with today, courtesy of Nelson Education’s Math Focus ….
This came under the heading “SUBTRACTING NUMBERS CLOSE TO HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS” and the instructions were to “use mental math to calculate”. Here is the completed example question with their explanation and instruction:
—————————————————————————————————–
“To subtract , add to the smaller number until you reach the greater number” For example:
1904 – 897 = _____
“This is the same as 897 + ____ = 1904″
To reach 1904, add numbers to 897:
897+3=900
900+1000=1900
1900+4=1904
“The difference is: 3+1000+4=1007″
——————————————————————————————————
Really? Why on earth would I allow my daughter to spend a moment doing a subtraction question this way?! Honestly I’m so exhausted with this nonsense. Nothing would please me more than to tear your book to shreds.
Needless to say, I support this initiative.
Hi Sonia, and welcome. Ironically, this is an example of what in the lingo they call a “personal strategy”. That is, the student invented it all on their own. Isn’t that great? Just pay no attention to the detailed instructions in the text. Nope. Uh-uh. The student invented it all by themselves, and so we shouldn’t question it. –WISE Math (RC) ]
I shouldn’t find that shocking but I do. These ‘personal strategies’ (and there are countless of them) have resulted in this last unit encompassing estimating, rounding, addition and subtraction from left to right and right to left, regrouping, borrowing, renaming — all to seemingly accomplish basic subtraction principals. Pretty dangerous to 9 year olds who desperately require fundamentals. I’d not have believed it if I hadn’t seen it myself. Subtraction used to mean “take away” or “difference”. Now it’s just a a word with a cloud of haziness surrounding it. I’m in constant damage control mode and its very sad, as my daughter is actually not too bad at math at all. Unfortunately this teaching has destroyed her belief that she is able. She categorically believes “she sucks at math”.
Jian Song, father of two girls (aged 12 and 16).
Several years ago after I realized how bad the math textbook “Math Makes Sense” is, I told my daughters to ignore the math they learned at school. Instead, I took full responsibility to teach them math. I used placement tests downloaded from Singapore Math (SM) to see the level they were at, and then I ordered the SM textbooks and workbooks at proper levels. I started SM grade 3 for my grade 4 girl and SM grade 5 for my grade 7 girl. In my view, SM is the best curriculum for teaching arithmetic to primary grade students. It doesn’t use any confusing and complicated “strategies”. There are no colorful pictures, no activities or puzzles, no “guess and check”, and no over-use of manipulative. It teaches fewer topics at a time with slower pace, and moves to new topic only when student fully masters the current topic (this is contrary to the spiral approach used in our school system, which I believe is a major factor among others for the deteriorating math education). The word problems in SM are carefully crafted and promote logical reasoning and abstract thinking. The arrangement of the sequences is well thought to reflect accumulative nature of math knowledge.
My daughters finished SM long time ago and I am still teaching them math at home. I teach them algebra, geometry (proof based Euclidean geometry, not the dumb-down taught at school), trigonometry (again, proof based), analytic geometry and maybe calculus in the future. As I don’t trust the “new math”, all the textbooks I am using are old-fashioned written by these professional mathematicians and great educators: Israel M. Gelfand, Andrei P. Kiselev, Morris Kline, and of course the Great Euclid.
While I am trying my best to ensure my children to receive a good math education, I feel heartbroken to see a whole generation of young people being ruined by the education system. That is why I fully support WISE Math. I am also talking to my children’s teachers and other parents to raise their awareness. I hope the collective efforts will reverse the declining trend in math education.
[Excellent anecdote, Mr. Song and thanks for sharing it with us. I'm glad to have this posted here, because you describe very well an effective strategy that many parents have found. Singapore is, indeed, one of the two resources we currently endorse for such purposes. It is unfortunate that parents have to remediate against what is learned in school under the official curriculum, and doubly unfortunate that this means some children will be shortchanged simply because their parents do not have the background, time or skills to do what you have done. Many parents write us asking what they can do for their children. We have put some suggestions here. Like many parents, Mr. Song has found some of these solutions on his own and shown the way. WISE MATH (RC) ]
[Note from Anna Stokke: I absolutely agree with everything you've written here. I also use the Singapore Math program with my daughters (in combination with the JUMP program) and it is excellent.]
Jiang Song has captured the essence of mathematics — abstraction, reasoning and proof — that is so sadly missing from the current curriculum. It was these characteristics that first drew me to mathematics in grammar school in England. It is distressing that many Canadian students never meet real mathematics. Well done, Mr. Song.
Alan Donald, Vancouver, BC
As a former high school teacher turned professor of statistics, I have taught every level from Grade Eight to graduate courses in mathematics and statistics. The higher level students I met in the latter part of my career were, of course, those with the talents to overcome bad teaching in elementary school. But I was always curious about the walking wounded who stumbled through high school math and are now surviving with minimal skills.
An oddity. Skimming through the list of signers, I notice that most are from Saskatchewan and Manitoba. BC is under-represented and Alberta is — so far as I can see — absent. Any explanation for this?
Hi Alan. Our geographical distribution probably has mostly to do with the fact that this initiative began in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, though it pertains to the curriculum coming into use everywhere to the West of Ontario. We’d be happy to hear from people in B.C. and Alberta willing to devote their time to spearhead this initiative in those provinces and partner with us as spokespersons for WISE Math. In fact, although we have not worked toward this, perhaps at one point we’ll have representatives from each math (not forgetting stats, physics, engineering…) department in the jurisdiction. WNCP becomes implemented system-wide in most places by 2013 so we expect interest to increase at the universities as folks discover the joys of dealing with students without the standard tools, what skills they have left unpracticed, missing the beautiful standard algorithms that foster economy of thought learning ad-hoc “strategies” instead, and a “multiple representations” approach instead of focussed problem solving skills.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
Hi Alan,
There are those of us here in Alberta that have signed this petition. We are not absent, but under represented. My daughter is currently in grade 5 and I have been teaching her math at home since the end of grade 1, when I realized the schools/teachers/curriculum wasn’t doing its job. I have tried to educate other parents to what is going on, but most seem complacent as their child, at least at our elementary school, does not come home with any worksheets or tests so that parents can realize that there is a problem. All they see is a report card and if your child is outgoing and puts their hand up in class, they may be wrong, but guess to ‘explore and discover’ a concept, they get great grades. Never mind that they don’t actually know anything. One of my ‘mom’ friends whose daughter is currently in grade 10 has finally realized what I was talking about when her daughter started failing grade 10 math after getting 80%-90% in grade 9. I am tutoring her in math and her grades are rising. The preparation for these kids as they head into high school and university (if they make it that far) is extremely poor. I am hopeful that at least a change can be made before a whole generation of kids is ruined by this ‘reform math curriculum’. But unfortunately the education powers that be seem so resistant to change until 20-30 year fads run their coarse.
– Comment added by Nathalie Hunt (Joined 2011/12/14)
Alice Mayer, Calgary AB – I am very disheartened with the new math curriculum taught to our young students in AB. When I was young being taught Math I had no issue with anything and now trying to help my ten year old daughter is next to impossible. I had to be taught by her grade 3 teacher how to do division because I could not make sense of what they were being taught. Its absurd to me that they would want to make a subject that is difficult to most students even more difficult for our little ones to learn. Dont children have enough to deal with in school already? Why would they want to make it more difficult for them???
To say I support this initiative is an understatement. I have two sons in Grade 1. I am truly flabbergasted at the Ontario education system. At parent teacher interviews, I learned that neither boy can count to 20, they can’t recognize numbers (especially out of order) and they can’t write numbers–I guess they’re too busy managing data and discussing their feelings about it. My sons don’t know what a ruler is, or how to use it to actually draw a straight line! Instead, they’re given a blank sheet of paper and just told to write however they think should, since “students are responsible for their own education.” They don’t even understand that to form numbers they need to work from top to bottom and write them left to write, keeping the numbers between the given lines. And yes, to their shock, neatness does count– it’s very hard to do a math problem if you can’t read your own writing!! We’re half way through the school year, what have they been doing? Well, they glued together a paper cube… Maybe I was naive as a parent thinking that they could start Grade 1 and they would actually learn basis skills— I went to Grade 1 and didn’t know how to count or say the alphabet which I learned. One of my sons has already voiced an interest in pursuing science as a career– what kind of real skills will the Ontario system give him? I looked at the Grade ,1 it states that basic operations are important but my kids can’t even write or recognize numbers!!! What a travesty! What are we doing to children? Other parents I have talked to are experiencing the exact same thing–they are tearing their hair out and spending hours tutoring tired resistant children who’ve been at school all day. Thank you WISE Math, I’m definitely behind you!
Here in Quebec the ‘New Math’ is part of a curriculum wide reform, that has changed the way all subjects are taught and evaluated. The reform has failed our children.
University student, I support this initiative
We support this initiative 100% and want our grandchildren to learn the old fashion math and (reading) the same way we did; and our daughter did in school, years ago. It has and continues to serve us well in our daily lives.
How are we as parents able to help our children with homework if we ourselves don’t understand the work they bring home…why does it have to be so complicated, after all what was wrong with the way we were taught,are we now to believe that our educating years were just a waste. Please lets go back to the way things were,as the saying goes, WHAT’S NOT BROKEN -LET’S NOT FIX!!!
Moira Stoll, Melville, SK, Canada
Can we please go back to the basics in all parts of education. Our children would benefit more from it. I want changes made now.
I’m actually reading this from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania but I wanted to add my support from the USA. I’ve taught math to elementary, middle, high school, and college students. I have also worked hard to be cognizant of my own learning experiences and I believe all these experiences agree with the approach endorsed by this organization. Keep up the good work!
Mariam Al-Hawaj, Richmond Hill, ON, I am a research assistant at Math and Stats Learning Centre in University of Toronto Scarborough, and a mother of two girls ( aged 9 and 14).
I support the initiative.
Michelle Wilson, Regina, SK
Seymour Iles, Dawson City. Yukon.
Very glad I found this after getting fed up with the current maths teaching fad. Happy to support this effort.
Thank you.
Kathryn Foran, Dawson City, Yukon.
Oh my God, thank goodness you exist. I sincerely appreciate that someone is taking issue with our current curriculum.
Bill Sutherland, Kimberley, B.C.
I am currently enjoying my 33rd year teaching elementary math. Math skills are declining and I support Wise Math initatives.
EDWARD PLOSZAY, WINNIPEG, MB. I support this initiative.
Now that Nova Scotia has embraced the WNCP Mathematics curriculum, it’s time to open a new front in Atlantic Canada. You are helping us to WISEn up when it comes to Math.
Shannon Galon, British Columbia My husband and I have been spending an average of three hours a night trying to figure out out 13 year old son’s math. By the end of the evening, we are usually all ready to burst into tears, especially him. This is crazy! We have three other kids that are not getting our attention because of the “new” HORRIBLE, math!
Let’s start preparing kids for success. Have had four kids struggle with this book now. Enough.
Wonderful : )
Trevor Thomson, Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Ivan Cassidy, Wolfville, NS.. I am a parent and grandparent, a former teacher of Math for 5 years at the elementary & 9 years at the secondary school level in N. Ireland, and am now retired after 28 years as a professor in teacher education at Acadia University. I wholeheartedly support the WISE iinitiative.
Karen Chopp, Winnipeg, MB
John Murray, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Formerly a mathematics and science curriculum consultant with the Manitoba Department of Education and now working in the renewable fuels sector with Manitoba Innovation, Energy and Mines. Seeking opportunities to engage WISE and the mathematics education community at large in a broad-based set of discussions – but particularly focusing on the theoretical basis for linking the fortunes of Canadian students of mathematics with those of such disparate jurisdictions as Singapore, the State of California, and the United States. Is the emphasis on international cooperation – or on competitiveness? When may that open discussion take its next steps?
As a university professor i daily witness the devastation caused by the “new math”.
Gale Smith, Lockeport, Nova Scotia
I’m a parent of three girls (10, 7 & 6)in the public school system. My oldest daughter currently struggles daily with her math and I’m very concerned with the adoption of this new system. I love the ideas presented here and feel the comprehension levels of students would increase drastically if they were implemented throughout our school system. As it is I spend many hours each month with tutors for my daughter (in grade 5) to be able to maintain her A average in math because the current curriculum is confusing enough, I’m afraid to see what will happen when things change over. We do need change within our school system, just not the one they’re adopting.
Tony, Mary Ann Marissink, Wolfville, N.S.
Breathe of fresh air to read these ideas. We have 2 12&13 year old girls in local public school. Oh, my frustartions but now I realize I am not alone. SQE in Toronto mirrors similar ideas. Keep up with this thrust please!
My name is Scott Adamson and I am a retired teacher living in Nova Scotia.I certainly support your initiative and fear that our province is jumping from the frying pan into the fire with the adoption of the Alberta math model championed by Dr. Small. I feel that John Mighton’s approach, as described thoroughly in his book THE MYTH OF ABILITY, is what is needed in Nova Scotia schools, not the “random abstract” model of Dr. Small, but the “concrete sequential” approach of John Mighton.
University student minoring in mathematics.
A very positive thrust. Hopefully something productive will result.
Rebecca Pellerin, Halifax NS
Jason Schwandt, P. Eng, Unionville, Ontario.
Liz Williams, Maple Ridge, BC
Math teacher
Darienne Suruj-Nath, Vancouver, BC
Mathematics teacher–I am saddened to see such weakness in the Math curriculum. We are cheating our children. They will not have the skills to be trained as scientists, engineers, accountants etc. I fear these jobs will, in the future, go to immigrants who have received their training elsewhere. We must get our act together NOW by teaching the fundamentals of numeracy.
Reply from Sandra Roberts:
You are so right about this. I do not see many ‘born here’ Canadians even trying to take these higher career paths. It saddens me greatly.
Sandra,
Edmonton, Alberta
Maha Chishti, Toronto, Ontario, frustrated parent of the math curriculum for my school aged children grades 11, 6 and 3. My grade 11 daughter went to many math tutors only to be utterly confused and has come to the conclusion she hates Math. She is brilliant, unfortunately never saw MATH as fun! I did all my schooling in the 70′s and 80′s and did pretty good in math I didn’t excel however I did see how it was a fun subject. My kids grumble and get frustrated, my husband and I do not understand the “new” mathematics. I support this initiative and hope to see our children in Canada learn and appreciate Math in a whole new light!
Reply from Jane Branchflower:
Your children might find help for their difficulty with and attitude to Math at the following web site:
http://www.khanacademy.org
It offers free tutoring in a number of subjects, especially math. Mr. Khan can also be seen on youtube where he explains his purpose in setting up the site.
Jane Branchflower,
Caledon, Ontario
Ting Mallari. Winnipeg, Manitoba. Mom of 5 & 7 yr old boys. Kudos to this initiative.
Jo-Anne Scott
Winnipeg Manittoba
The devestation of math skills and basic understanding of number relations, functions and basic calculation, have contributed to the situation we are now seeing, where most Alberta educated students leaving high school avoid mathematics instruction at all costs in post secondary. They have little understanding of mathematics and are calculator dependant, memorizing key strokes for the Math 30 final. Little wonder students trained in Asia and Eastern Europe are dominating our math and science professions. The current system is stealing from our children, and is nothing less than child abuse. As a former curriculum director for a large school system I tried in vain to stem the erosion of knowledge for curriculum. That erosion is now creating a crises in edcuation.
Very concerned that children need to learn basic math skills to enable them to quickly judge the accuracy of an answer which they have calculated. Being out by a factor of 10 should not go unnoticed by anyone!
I was amazed when I compare my children’s school curriculum with my nephew’s from my country of origin. My kids were born in Canada and I thought the school level would be much better than a third country’s. I support Wisemath
Elizabeth Wilcox, Edmonton, AB
We have ordered old textbooks for our 4 children and plan to spend our summer “holidays” teaching them what the schools have failed to teach all year.
Sunil Singh, Math and Physics Teacher, Toronto
The math education in Ontario is the worst ever! So much money spent and so little math being done. A lot of pseudo-math and edubabble, with naive taxpayers picking up the tab for this self-congratulatory pap! Check under the hood…this shiny new car is a clunker.
A damning commentary on Ontario’s math curriculum. How many more high school students have to drop math after they’ve fulfilled the compulsory requirements, before the government wakes up to the fact that in an age where we need more students who have a passion for math, we have utterly failed to engage them in this endeavour?
I am shocked and disappointed that so many elementary-age students in Vancouver do not know their times tables. I support the WISE Math initiative. Thank you for caring.
Garth Cochran, Calgary, AB. My boys went through school 20 years ago and I was appalled at the quality of the teaching them and how poorly they were being taught. I’ts gotten worse!
Theresa Seim, Hanover Ontario
I am tired of cashiers who cannot make change unless they ring in the actual amount on the cash register, and look amazed when I can come up with the correct answer. Back in the old days I made my kids learn their times tables and how to add, substract, multiply and divide and I am glad I persevered through all the tears, so are my children now.
Monica Thimer, Mission B.C
Daughters at 10. And 13. I am frustrated every day when my 10 year old brings home homework that she can not understand nor do because she des not have he basics down and no they want her to strategize! Math makes sense is so wordy that any child with a problem reading or comprehending will be set up to fail in Martha’s well.
Parent of an 8 year old boy in grade 2.
Tessa Reid, Post Secondary Math Instructor
Edmonton, AB
Kathy Pelletier, Edmonton, AB
Post secondary math instructor
Desiree Wengrowich, Winnipeg, Manitoba.
My kids basic math skills are sketchy at best. I believe that it is my job as a parent to help him at home if he needs assistance. But I have discovered his general math knowledge is so poor that I will be hiring someone to help make sure that gets filled in.
I do not blame the teachers per se; many of them are doing the best they can with the limited time and resources they have. In our particular school division, I believe that the continued use of the CAP program is one of the reasons our students are falling behind overall. The kids are missing out on several hours of instruction so that the division’s “assessment” requirements can be met. But math education is just not up to par in this province, in my opinion. Get these kids some times tables, so they can have the tools they need to solve more complex questions later!
Charlene Walberg, Winnipeg, MB, parent of one child 10, with a keen interest in mathematics.
Melanie Bell, Edmonton, AB
Post Secondary Math Instructor
Colleen McCracken
Winnipeg, parent of an 11 yr old and 13 yr old
Carmen Hopf, Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I am a mother, a grandmother, and a teacher.
Not having basic skills is effective in stopping many children from having any success in math and undermining their confidence for their futures.
Darlene Payne, Winnipeg, MB.
Teacher. I agree with this initiative to strengthen our math education from the primary years through grade 12.
Ryan Seabrook, Saskatoon, SK
Sara Seabrook, Saskatoon, SK
Cy Lenz, Saskatoon,
Nidhi Srivastava, Winnipeg, MB
Without solid foundational knowledge, creativity is not possible. Change the curriculum to address this…please.
I am wholeheartedly in support of this initiative.
Ellen Thompson, WInnipeg, Manitoba
Margaret Andres, Dalmeny, SK, mother of a seven year old
Debora Shanks, Dalmeny, Sask.
parent of 11 year old and I support this initiative
After teaching math at both the University of Alberta and at NAIT to a wide audience, I can say that basic innumeracy is the most troubling, widespread and preventable flaw in our education system today. The fundamental problem with our curriculum is this: Every student is being expected to re-derive all mathematics they learn on their own. This is simply not feasible. First of all, unless we want to extend high school to last until students are 30, there is not time. Second of all, some of the elementary operations we are so afraid of introducing through repetition are prerequisite to the type of reasoning we are expecting students to have before they learn the operations in the first place. Imagine telling carpentry students that lesson 1 was to build a hammer from scratch!
Until this can be corrected, I humbly suggest that parents do the following: If you are unable to understand the point of homework that is being given to your son or daughter, generate your own simple addition/subtraction/multiplication/division worksheets and given them to your children as part of their “chores”. Start with whole numbers, but work up to integers and then rational numbers. I understand that it is unfair that you pay for an education system to do this for you through your tax dollars, but it is your children who pay if they do not have these simple skills. Even using the basic formula functions in Excel with random values and hiding some of the cells it is possible to generate simple 15-20 question sheets that can be completed once a week to ensure baseline competency. My father did this for me and I intend to do it for my children in the future. Beyond the obvious benefits of numerical literacy, if your son or daughter has a solid grounding in the basics they may begin to experience some of the intended benefit of the more abstract exercises that are the focus of the “new” math.
P.S. If anyone reading this is involved in future curriculum development, please avoid using the word “new” when describing math. It immediately diminishes the credibility of whatever system you’re proposing.
Alex Ondrus, Edmonton, Alberta
You expressed the problem in a nutshell, I am going to forward this to everyone I know who has young children. I love the spreadsheet idea, and fully agree with the “new” math comment.
Kari Bergmuller, Winnipeg, Manitoba
I am in favour of this.
Ion Bica, Alberta, Assistant Professor
William Toni, Winnipeg MB
Chantal Shilliday, Winnipeg,MB.
Lauren Hope, Winnipeg
BSc (Mathematics) BEd
Parent to two children, ages 1 and 3.
I strongly support the WISE initiative. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to the cause.
Robert Hilts, Edmonton, Chemistry Professor
Shona Suderman
Winnipeg, MB
Both my husband and I are Engineers by training, and our daughter started Kindergarten in September. I have growing concerns about the methods I have been seeing being employed for solving math problems by my friends and peers who have children in older grades. I’m frankly alarmed at the fact that people are buying their junior high aged children high end calculators that my husband and I didn’t use until we got to University. These calculators are being mandated by the school system. Students in grade school need to learn the basics before they can understand how to use graphing calculators in any sort of meaningful way.
Fereidoun Ghahramani, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Manitoba
Cornelia Bica, Edmonton, Alberta
I teach mathematics at NAIT and I am the mother of three children in elementary and junior high school. I am appalled at what is happening with the education of our children. Mathematics curriculum seems to be especially targeted, with the stated goal of making it better but with the actual result of making our children less prepared than everyone else in the world, pretty much. We are short-changing our children by offering them sub-par education. I have to spend a lot of time at home to remedy the damage that our schools are doing. Math is now more confusing to most children, and we are driving away more children from math than before. Ironic, when the stated reason for curriculum change was quite the opposite. I hope we can reverse this trend.
Stephanie Hofmeyer, Sherwood Park, Alberta
I am a high school math teacher and have noticed a significant decrease in mathematical fluency over the past 5 years. Something needs to change.
Susan Roddy, Brandon, Mb
Thank you Anna. My son entered grade 1 reading and doing Math at a Grade 3-6 level. In Grade 6 he was operating at a Grade 6 level. He did maybe half an hour’s homework a week but got glowing reports (except sometimes his behaviour) until he went off the rails a bit in Grade 11. Partly this was athletics and a poor attitude. But I am positive that if his academic teachers demanded even one tenth of the committment and discipline his athletic mentors did he would have done so much better. (Thankfully he is back in post-secondary education in BC now.)
I am a math professor. It is vital that young students learn the basics early and well. It is also as important to challenge talented, keen students as it is to give remedial help to others.
Your efforts, Anna Stokke and others, to improve mathematical education are excellent and sorely needed. Unfortunately both school and university education in mathematics leaves a lot to be desired. Both levels of education have incredibly strong built-in resistance to changes initiated by knowledgeable insiders that could improve the educational outcomes. On the other hand our school system has been beset by bizarre imposed changes initiated by anonymous outsiders – the “New Math” disaster, windowless schools, open area classrooms, no-fail policies, and now this self-discovery learning of mathematics. You would think that is common sense and common knowledge that children/people can only be creative in mathematics (or art or any other field) if they already have a lot of learned basic knowledge that they can use to mould their creative ideas. Unfortunately this common sense is lacking in the people who bring these new initiatives into our schools.
Thanks,
Peter Aitchison
Retired Professor of Mathematics, University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Emanoil Theodorescu, Toronto, ON
Professor Stokke: Education standards in mathematics are abysmal, judging from the public information I see. I came to wonder why there are still young Canadian and US university professors in math departments.
Worst of all, mathematicians who might “infiltrate the system” are at the mercy of … illiterates and of policy makers.
Although I agree with the document, I note that it completely left out that it isn’t a Canadian, or even North American phenomenon: it’s … (almost) worldwide! Isn’t it a bit strange ?
Oh: TeacherEd from the UK teaches 11th grade students that x^2 – 3x – 2 can’t be factored! (No mention of base field/ring at all!)
11th grade ? Two years away from university ?
Thanks.
I and my family migrated to Canada in 1991, and unfortunately math has been poorly taught in schools since then (at least that was my experience).
The math that I learned in my birth country ( up to grade 5), got me through almost all of high school . I basically wasn’t taught anything new until grade 12- calculus and Algebra & Geometry, and that’s when I started to get grades under 80%.
In my country, we were not allowed to use calculators, we were taught the long divisions and were given time to practice during school. According to my mom, in El Salvador, kids are taught the basics (adding, subtracting, etc) from
preschool . I hope that with our voices are heard and the math curriculum improves! Math takes practice, lots and lots of practice !
Didn’t think it was broke in the first place!!!!!!!!
Kathleen Nichol, Brandon, MB
I teach students who did not take high school courses in math, physics and chemistry, who need them now at university. Students learn well when motivated, but it is very difficult to learn the skill of math in one, or two semesters. The experience with numbers takes a few years and practice to develop. Once this familiarity with numbers grows, relationships are seen much quicker and new levels of math can be learned and appreciated. Then the doors open … to many careers … where seeing relationships,using numbers, really, really helps … geology, business, research in biology and chemistry and astrophysics and …
Rob Borgersen, Instructor in Mathematics, University of Manitoba. I see every term students are weaker and weaker in the basics. I am now a father (my son is 16 months old), and I am frustrated that likely much of his math education will need to come from me…or even worse, that I may need to correct the incorrect math he learns from his math teachers who don’t know math.
Eric Schippers, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Math professor. Father of two girls, ages 3 and 6.
At some point in one’s life, adding, multiplying and dividing should no longer require creative problem solving.
It is wonderful to encourage creativity and problem solving skills. To think that this implies that algorithms should not be taught is just silly.
If a student is too weak in elementary high school mathematics, there is almost no chance for them to succeed in a university math course. I have seen many such cases in my teaching at the University of Manitoba. Many times, a student could not pass a calculus course not because they did not work hard, but because of the lack of high school math knowledge. The solidness of their foundation really decides what you can build on it.
Yong Zhang, Winnipeg, MB., Math professor and parent to a 15 year old girl.
Senior Scholar, Math, U of MB. There seems to be little or no response to the discussion from representatives of faculties of education (who actually train teachers) or representatives of provincial departments of education. Similarly, while I listened to most of the discussion on CBC Cross Country Checkup, if there was any contribution from those communities, I missed it. I wish you well in your attempt to gain the attention of those communities.
Math Professor
Tommy Kucera, Winnipeg, MB. Mathematics professor. My first training in teaching, as a graduate student, was in remedial mathematics teaching. It is heartbreaking to see today so many bright young students with good study habits and good high school grades for whom even two terms of “remedial” mathematics would not be enough for them to realize their full potential in university level mathematics. The new curriculum, with its antipathy to skills development, is going to make the gap between school mathematics and university mathematics even greater.
Alan Kuzemchuk, Peace River, Alberta. Parent and chemical engineer/math tutor
Greg Sivertson
Victoria BC
Wayne Loutet, Duncan, British Columbia. Retired Math teacher who is now back in the classroom as a teacher on call, and a tutor, and periodically a short term contract. Finally I am reading what I have been thinking for so long. Fix this in the elementary and middle school by getting math specialists in each school. When I retired, I worked for a publishing company that was preparing books for Alberta, for the WNCP new curriculum. We were not allowed to use mnemonics, such as CAST rule, SOHCAHTOA, BEDMAS etc., we were not allowed to use the word “Step” to show how to solve a type of problem, for it may suggest to students that that was the only way to solve the problem and that they could not try any other way. I could go on and on, but my feeling for the “good old boys” in Alberta’s Ministry of Education was: “Every Good Boy Deserves Flogging!!”.
I don’t know how many times I’ve gone in to a local vendor to purchase about 150g of a product that is priced per 100g and had the clerks stare at me like a deer in headlights (or insist on selling me 200g because that’s the only math they can handle).
As someone who works with university chemistry students, as a mother of 8, 6, and 4 year olds, and as member of society who has noticed an alarming erosion of the mathematical literacy in many of the younger generation, I strongly support this initiative. We are failing our students if they are struggling so desperately not only if they want to take university-level math, but also if they can’t perform simple daily tasks that any high school graduate should have mastered. They deserve better than this.
Kathy Palmquist,Fort McMurray,AB
I so agree with this ,my daughter is in grade 8 and the new curriculum is so confusing…. My son is in grade 12 and his grade was the last on the old curriculum…
great job!!!
I stongly support this initiative. Mother of two-grades 5 & 7, very frustrated with our math curriculum. Our childrens future is at stake. I’m an RN not a math teacher. My family time is precious and to be expected to teach math at home is insane, to figure out the math curriculum so I can try to attempt to assist with homework is time consuming and frustrating. These kids need to learn the basics in school and ARE NOT being taught them. This needs to change SOON, for the hope of our kids future careers!
I am a university professor and am concerned with the math skills of many of my students, who are otherwise very bright. Also as a parent of a fifth grader, I am very frustrated with the present “Math Makes Sense” curriculum. Yesterday, I came to know about your initiative through the CBC program. As I was also planning to do something about this curriculum, which I believe should be called “Math Does Not Make Sense”. I highly appreciate your initiative and would be willing to participate in efforts to strengthen our math curriculum.
My 10-year-old daughter, and I, are victims of “Math Makes Sense”, better known in parental conversations as “math makes no sense”. As far as I am concerned this system is the emperor’s new clothes, and I am grateful to initiatives such as this for pointing out the naked truth.
Barb MacKinnon, Truro, Nova Scotia
I totally agree with this initiative. I have been frustrated for years with the math curriculum here in NS. There is not enough practice, and no mastery of the skills needed for higher level math. My daughter is finishing Gr 12, and achieved an 85 in precalc, but only with extra help from teachers and tutors. My son is in gr. 10 and sees a tutor once a week, and I’m thinking of twice a week next year. My son is starting to feel he will be shut out of certain careers because of his math skills. I don’t understand why there isn’t a national curriculum for math, instead of each province wasting money developing poor curriculum. I believe that technology will help to solve this in the future, with personalized programing for students. In the meantime, the provincial education departments need to collaborate to solve this issue.
[Hi Barb. Your frustrations are common across the country. I don't know, offhand, if NS has adopted WNCP (some Maritime areas have). If so then it is close to a "National Curriculum". For what it matters I agree that uniform standards across the nation would alleviate certain problems. However WNCP has not fixed, but exacerbated problems. The good news is that if we can fix WNCP we can help kids in several provinces simultaneously. Read about some of the solutions proposed in the NMAP report, which gives some idea what sort of changes we'd like to see. If you agree with what you see there, talk to others in your area and put pressure on your elected officials -- WISE Math (RC)]
I have 3 children approaching school age so my wife and I have been looking into education more. She is a school teacher as well (not practicing) and we have really been considering home schooling. Many homeschools support ALTERNATIVE math teachings like understanding the abacus and using Asian influenced addition (10 -1, 10-2, 10-3 instead of 11,12,13 etc). Our language actually is a huge struggle for students to overcome as students have to translate first, then compute. I also hire students in my geomatics company and have seen a huge decline in students getting their math at a grad 12 level in BC. This is due to the high influence of trades programs instead of graduating with the basic sciences and having options when graduating. I don’t think I’ll let my kids even step into a public school until there is major reform to math and other subjects.
[Slightly Edited -- WISE Math (RC)]
I agree with many of the comments already posted. I was listening to CBC radio yesterday and heard about your initiative. Keep up the great work!
Completely shocked at the math curriculum. Strongly believe if children don’t have the basics such as times tables mastered in the early grades they will be left behind in later grades. Not everybody has a natural ability for math. Mother of two Grade 2 kids.
I agree 100% that math education – certainly in Ontario, and apparently in the rest of Canada is in a dismal state. There is far to much emphasis on “creative solutions” in the early years – when students should be solidifying basic skills. As with any trade or art, you need to know how to use the tools before you can start to apply your creativity.
A painter can’t paint if they don’t understand the technical process of painting. A writer can’t write if they haven’t mastered spelling, grammar, punctuation and structure of a story.
So pleased this initiative is finally underway! The state of math education for my 4 children in Ontario has been appalling!
[Hello Joanne. Pleased to have you on board. Just for your information, while WISE Math is concerned about the Ontario curriculum (and a few associated issues), the issues there are slightly different than here in Manitoba, and our mission is to address the regions affected by the WNCP curriculum. Recently we have been in conversation with a small group hoping to do about the same for Ontario; when they get a web page started we'll likely put up a link on our resource page. Parents, mathematicians etc with fire in their belly to help set up a sister organization there can email us and request to be put in touch with them. WISE MATH (RC)]
However, we do encourage people from Ontario and other provinces to sign here and some of the issues we are trying to address affect all of the Canadian provinces. We can put you in contact with people in your area who are working for change. AS
Johnathan Burchill, Calgary, parent to one boy (aged 5/3), physicist. These books by a theoretical physics Nobel laureate might be of interest: “Tips on Physics” by R.P. Feynman, Chapter 2, on the necessity of practicing math for doing first-year university physics), and “The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume I, Chapter 22, Algebra: an inspiring explanation of arithmetic as the foundation for Euler’s famous formula connecting complex numbers with geometry.
[Hi Johnathan, thanks for the references. Feynman was one who understood the value of nailing down skills, and while he did not call himself a mathematician the fact that he was a Putnam Fellow will strike instant respect into anyone who understand what that means in terms of mathematical prowess. My favourite Feynman anecdote concerns a lecture he gave on the fundamental forces of nature to a group of physicists: "As you know, gravity is weak!" and he pounded on the podium to emphasize the point: "Matter of fact, it's D@#% weak!". At that moment a large speaker cabinet suspended above the stage came unmoored and crashed to the floor in front of him. Feynman glanced down at the mess and back to the audience, without skipping a beat: "Weak ... but not negligible!"
You didn't say directly, but I'll take your join comment as indicating your support for WISE Math. WISE Math (RC)]
Pauline Ripat, Winnipeg, MB (parent of two)
Thank you for heading up this initiative.
I have 2 kids, one who learned the basics well, and the other who is learning to count on her fingers in order to solve basic math problems. It seems counting on fingers trumps multiplication tables and long division. Frustrated.
Albert Welter, Professor and parent, of daughter (age 10) enrolled in an elite (supposedly) private school in Mantitoba, who has had to resort to the Sprit on Math (highly recommend) program to ensure that math requirements are being fulfilled. Highly disappointed in Manitoba curriculum.
Hello:
I taught math at the high school level and the college level for many years. I graduated from Math and Physics at U of T.
I went through many curriculum changes over the years. One most notably was the “New Math” in the 60′s. This was a supposed response to the success of the Russian Sputnick.
This was soon abandoned.
It appears now that the powers that be at Queens Park (Ontario) have come up with another plan to revolutionize math teaching.
I admire the stance you are taking.
I listened to Rex Murphy today and was impressed with comments made by the Math Professor at the University of Winnipeg.
One comment. The basic skills, add, subtract , multipy, divide were mentioned
When speaking of the subtraction algorithm, the professor mentioned “borrowing.”
With all due respect, I do wish that the teachers in the lower grades would teach the reverse additive method for subtraction.. With this, “borrowing” is never necessary.
I was taught this method by my grade two teacher many yrars ago and have been forever grateful..
Thanks for your attention
John Hudson
[Hello John, yes things have gotten "interesting" in Ontario, though helpfully they have retained -- with reduced emphasis -- the standard algorithms. By "reverse additive method" I believe you are referring to a lovely variant on the standard subtraction algorithm in which one adds in one digit of the subtrahend instead of borrowing. It is one of the few widely used genuine variations. While it is easier to use many find it harder to see why this step "works" which may explain why the other is more common -- it's likely a pedagogical thing. But since it is only a minor variant it could easily be taught to capable students alongside the standard algorithm without undue confusion. Another lovely variant for subtraction is tens-complementation, which comes close to the way computers do arithmetic. But explaining that one requires a considerably more advanced concept of place value, which probably excludes it from elementary arithmetic. WISE Math (RC)]
I’m a retired teacher mainly math phys.ed and sciences. I must concur that the foundation knowledge is missing more often by more students the longer I stayed in teaching math. Sadly, no new math curriculum seems to be coming here in Alberta to alleviate my (our) concerns.
without basic math skills how are our children going to take up the positions of mathematicians and math professors in the future? we are not doing our children a favour by taking out the challenge and making it “easy to pass all students” so no one is left behind.
Kirsten Kramar, Winnipeg parent to 2 girls (aged 4 and 10), sociology professor. My 10 year old daughter is brilliant in both music and math and I’m worried that she will not getting the basic skills she will need to be curious about math and her own abilities.
Thank you Anna Stokke for talking to our River Heights Liberal Association last night. As the provincial Liberal leader in Manitoba I am very concerned about math education. I believe that our children need the very best start possible in math. It is vitally important to how well our young people will do later in school and as adults.
It was my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me!
–Anna Stokke
Monica Krenzler, Lacombe, AB
Thank you!!! I have a degree in Math and can help my kids (Gr 9 and 10) but why should I have to? I can’t even begin to voice my frustration with the “new math”! Kudos to the teachers that dare to teach “old school”!
I have a degree in computer science and am at a loss as to how to help my two high school aged boys without spending huge amounts of time to learn it myself. Time and energy I simply don’t have, especially since I’m not sure I’d even be able to get it “right”.
Thank you so much for this forum. There has been so many nights I would have loved to throw the Nelson Math textbook into the fireplace. When asked to compute 6 X 4, my bright grade 5 son draws 4 circles and puts 6 dots in each, then he counts the dots #%$@* ?! Another issue is the amount of “group work” or group problem-solving-math my children do at school. In exasperation I try to explain that they won’t be doing their Grade 12 Calculus exam on a group!
Are there any Ontario parents who have started an advocacy group? If so sign me up…I’m in.
Lacey, Pitt Meadows BC
I fully support the initiative of WISE math. Far too many children are overwhelmed by the “new math” in texts like MMS.
Tatyana Greens . Winnnipeg, MB
Heather Rowe-Fahlman, parent to 3 children (one learned math the “old” way and is flourishing, the other 2 are struggling learning the “new” way), Winnipeg, Manitoba.
This just does not seem like the best way to go about teaching math. Why is there all of a sudden a problem with how it’s been done for years? I understand different people learn different ways but this just seems to be making it worse not better.
Holly Berube, Sherwood Park, AB. After reading the Maclean’s article I was shocked. I did not realize how much of a problem the new math curriculum was. My daughter who is in grade 4 is struggling. She feels that she is the problem. I showed her the article and this website and she was surprised.
I feel that this present math system has totally destroyed my childrens confidence and I have absolutly no confidence in the teachers who are presenting it.
I am a professional engineer and parent of two (14 & 16) and I applaud your initiative and thank you for providing a channel to attempt to effect change in the way math is taught.
I fought this battle when my own children were in the system. For a while it looked hopeful once the PC’s were elected in our province. However, the educrats are so thoroughly entrenched at both the ministry and the board levels that I came to the conclusion that the only way to reform the system is to close it down and start all over with a form of charter schools.which would reflect parental choice and also eliminate the unions. Advocating for your children’s education can take over your life.
Salina Stilborn, Regina, Saskatchewan. I support this initiative.
Mother of a grade 6 girl. Master’s in Biology. I am appalled by the ‘Math Makes Sense’ program and the lack of fundamental math skills being taught. I’ve pretty much given up on the school teaching her math – instead, my daughter uses an online tutoring service (www.ixl.com) to study at home to learn what she isn’t being taught at school.
She tells me the basic skills she’s learning online were simply never introduced in the classroom (and the online program is BASED based on the curriculum!). One thing in particular that the online program gets right, in my humble opinion, is that you don’t pass a level until you can demonstrate proficiency in EVERY required skill. Every wrong answer means you need to do more questions to practice (and enough right answers in a row means you know your stuff and have mastered the skill). The MMS program is so caught up on forcing the children to use multiple strategies and adding complexity to basic math functions that the skills themselves are lost in the shuffle. It’s ridiculous that she has to come home and study on her own just to learn the concepts the board of education already claims to be teaching.
Lise Dawson, Nanaimo, BC.
My husband has a Bachelor of commerce degree and I have a Master’s in Nursing degree. We have struggled to help our kids pass math for years (now grade 11, 10 and kindergarten). I cannot count the hours spent and the tears shed as we poured over text books in an attempt to understand this ridiculous curriculum. If this is not stopped there will be damage to another generation of students. I am very disappointed in a publicly funded education system that is so miserably failing our children. It is shameful….
Ian Bastin, Winnipeg
Just read the Macleans magazine article “Why is it your job to teach your kids math?” from March 13, 2012. I am happy to see this initiative – it’s something I can wholeheartedly support! My husband has a degree in Engineering and is not happy with this new math program. We have spent many frustrating hours helping our oldest daughter with math as she does not know the essentials and finds many of the methods confusing. Let’s get back to the basics!
These comments are a breath of fresh air.
I have a background in engineering and medicine. My wife has a masters degree in biology. We have been working with my daughter for the past two years (she is in grade 4) trying to go through the “new” Alberta math curriculum. It is absolutely crazy. There seems to be little room for a solid foundation of basic facts in the math curriculum. There are chapters in her textbooks that cover “strategies” for solving problems but these are not taught in a way that makes any direct connection to a child.
Children at the elementary level are very concrete in their thinking and they need to be taught that way. How does the Alberta government expect kids to excel at the sciences without knowing the basics of mathematics?
It is shocking to me how this will turn kids away from math because they will find it frustrating and confusing. We will end up with fewer mathematicians, physicists, chemists, engineers, computer scientists, accountants, statisticians, nurses, doctors, etc. because of this curriculum. In effect, this will harm our economy.
I have yet to meet any parents who disagree with me and I have spoken to quite a few.
I’m just glad that my wife and I have the time and patience to help my daughter through this. I’m also paying to have her tutored in math. She has a dream to be a veterinarian one day. I won’t let her down. I wish the Alberta government would make the same comittment.
I fully support this initiative.
Alexandra McGregor, Toronto, Ontario
I support this initiative.
I strongly agree with and support this initiative. I am so tired of having to “home school” my kids after they come home from school.
YOU FOLKS ARE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!! I operate a tutoring service in Regina Saskatchewan. Our business name is “All About Learning”; in reality it should be changed to “All About Math”! Over 95% of our business involves helping parents and students who are struggling in math. The number one problem is simple, no basic skills! The second biggest problem is poor, or sometimes even wrong instruction. http://www.allaboutlearning.ca
Brett
I share your concerns!
I was not prepared for my child to struggle with Math to the point that he is once he entered grade 7 this past year. I presumed that he was going through the phase of paying attention more to peers than his teacher once the math lesson started. However, my son has done well in other subject areas without the same level of concern. My son seems terribly confused with basic elements in math and because there was no concerns in previous grades, I became confused regarding a sudden ‘brick wall’ in my son’s learning. Recently, I saw the McLEan’s article that has led me to this site. I am astonished and relieved that perhaps it is not only what may be my son’s reported lack of attention but also associated to what many are experiencing with their children’s learning or lack thereof. I have turned to tutoring, online math sheets, and some long evenings going over math with a son that now believes he is ‘stupid’ and unable to grasp math. This loss in his self-efficacy with math and many times, his esteem among peers as they make mark comparisons, is a byproduct of the issue. The teacher seems competent however, I wonder about this when my son is often blamed for not asking when he needs help as the reason for his grave marks. I have considered that as other parents have done, to volunteer or work at the school in order to monitor my children’s education. Thank-you for identifying this issue…it’s not just my family’s experience!!!
Professor of physics and father of two children (4 & 8 years old).
Bill Gates, Steve Jobs as well as every computer genius learned math using the old system.
If the whole reason for the new math is to enable our children to better use computers, someone might want to let Bill Gates know so he can catch up.
Bill Gates learned the old math, as did Steve Jobs and every other computer genius.
Now what was the reason for the change? Need I say more!!!
In Grade Four, my son, who is now in First Year University, was in a class where a new Math Textbook and Workbook was piloted. The problems were all word based. There were no examples of what was required to perform the various equations. It was very confusing not only for him but also for myself and my husband. I am an architect and work with numbers everyday and my husband is a real estate lawyer where he as well is working with complex numbers everyday. I spoke to his teacher and the Principal regarding how poorly written and confusing this new textbook was. Unfortunately, they both said, that the ciricullum was heading into this word based experimental direction as mandated by the Ministry of Education.
I have also noticed that over the years of my three childrens schooling the standards for recruiting teachers have been based on minimum qualifications rather than significant qualifications. At our high school one of the senior Math teachers is a trained English teacher. She, as you may imagine, is not the first choice for a math teacher. This was brought about by the strengthening of the Teacher’s Union in BC and I am sure it is the same in other provinces. I have long been concerned about this trend.
My three children, who are all naturally strong in math, have had a Math tutor for both Grade 11 and 12 as had all of their friends. These students are getting A’s and B’s. I feel sorry for those families who do not have the financial capability to afford a math tutor. It is essential for everyone to have basic math skills. People need to understand their credit card payments, mortgage rates and even basi precentages. Sometimes it seems that Ministries of Education grab onto the new thing with little research such as this word based experimental math program or in BC when they started to teach the Whole Language style of reading. Another failed yet seeming progressive educational trend. Thank you for making your concerns public. Hopefully it will make a difference. Many wonderful things have been lost in the school system as the “New New Thing” comes into vogue. Hopefully basic math skills won’t be one of them.
Hi Andre,
Our family shares your frustration with the math curriculum being taught in our public schools. I’m creating a group here in BC where we’d like to bring awareness and try and bring about some change with the Ministry of Education. If you would like to add your name to our email distribution list, please contact me at houley@shaw.ca. We would like to bring awaretness to this fantastic initiative to this province.
There will be a small segment on this math problem on CBC Radio next Tuesday. Michelle Eliot’s “The Parent Project” will be featured between 3-6 pm on “On the Coast”. Their website is
http://www.cbc.ca/onthecoast/columnists/parentproject/
Thanks for sharing your story and your support.
Sincerely,
Tara Houle
North Saanich, BC
I have suffered the humiliation of the BC education system and it’s inability to educate me,I have always felt frustrated and lack confidence in my abilities or my lack of abilities in math. Now 30 years after I graduated from high school,my children are struggling with math. Why do I now have to pay for a tutor (that by the way is not tax deductible)at a rate of about $350.00 a month for one child, when they are being taught math in school and my tax dollars are paying for those teachers. I also think, Math, English and P.E should run year round. Angela D. Taylor Kamloops BC
Hi Angela,
We’re trying to get an awareness campaign going here in British Columbia. I’m just so impressed with all the work that this initiative has done in Winnipeg and across this country. I would like to add our collective voices to this cause, out here in BC. Send me an email at houley@shaw.ca and spread the word!
Sincerely,
Tara Houle
With our daughter beginning Kindergarten this year, I have spent the last year trying to work out where best she would be educated.
Coming from a British education that is strong in math, I was really disappointed to see that there is very little emphasis put on math in the curriculum (here in Victoria. BC) Furthermore, the girls are already beyond that which is being taught and we fear that our daughter is bored already in her class, just one week in.
I may take some heat for saying this but in my school..Math, English and Science were split into ability. The syllabus was then set out for each class and student ability. Allowing for students to move classes, should they need.
A weakness in the math curriculum only means that the children will not meet their full potential. Comprehending math begins in the early years of school and should be a priority until you graduate.
I coach sports for a living and without the fundamentals being taught properly, you can only go so far on natural talent. If I didn’t prepare my athletes as best I could, then I would be failing them. The same begins in our home. I work hard to give the girls the best chance in life. My parents did the same for us.. Many hours were spent at the dinner table learning.
I fully support WISE. Hoping that with enough support the government will change their priorities when it comes to education and our children.
Kelly
I waited until my oldest daughter was truly lost in mathematics before I realized that the school was creating the problem. I bought a “sensible” arithmetic curriculum, and began teaching my girls the basics of mathematics. I had tried to support the teachers in their techniques, but when I was shown the way the children were being instructed, I was confused too! (I have a degree in Computer Science, I am not unfamiliar with higher/lower level mathematics!)
Since that day, my children have all received basic math instruction from me. I actively tell them to ignore how the teacher is showing them, and “do it my way”. I hate this, but it is the only way to keep them on track.
I have shared my experiences with other parents, and shared my resources, but I have not been able to change the system. Perhaps with this “bigger voice”, we can be heard.
Janice Mosher, North Saanich BC, 3 girls – aged 11, 9 & 6, software developer
I am extremely frustrated with the math teaching methods being used today. My grade 6 daughter is struggling with the basics which should not be the case. I am forever helping her at home, she is having an extremely hard time grasping the techniques they are teaching her, and it is only getting more difficult for her. We need to go back to the methods we used to use.
I support this initiative, it is high time that something like this happens! Our children deserve the proper teaching methods.
I am a retired senior high school math teacher and have taught grades 6-12. I am greatly frustrated by the steady decline in the math ability of Canadian students. The reasons for this are many. A lot of elementary school teachers have received little training in mathematics and, in fact, some have an aversion to teaching math. The majority of these teachers are usually well versed in the arts but are not what I call “math people”.. Over my 35 year career I have witnessed, in the junior high and high schools, many non-math trained teachers being given full time math teaching assignments. The belief among some administrators is that anyone can teach math, so they allow non-math trained teachers to teach the subject.
The latest fads are also extremely detrimental to having students learn math well. The move away from practicing skills has destroyed the students’ ability to gain number sense. Tiger Woods receives lessons and it takes him many months to incorporate the concepts into his game. Hours of practice are the only way for him to do this but the latest fad is to do away with rote learning and practicing in schools. Letting students ‘come up with their own methods’ is like asking them to re-invent all of the math that has taken centuries to develop from the best minds on the planet. This type of trial and error is time-consuming and the results are not guaranteed. Students should not be left to ‘figure things out their own way’ without strong guidance from a knowledgeable teacher.
I agree fully that math is in a crisis but until the ministries of education stop listening to the half-baked ideas that continually seem to arise in education and start listening to the math experts I see little hope. No wonder my math tutoring business has exploded.
Reply From Alan Donald, Vancouver, BC
“Letting students ‘come up with their own methods’ is like asking them to re-invent all of the math that has taken centuries to develop from the best minds on the planet.”
Well said, Ken.
My inner cynic raises the suspicion that WNCP’s main function is to permit teachers to dodge the responsibility of learning the mathematics they are supposed to teach. This suspicion is strengthened by your observation that many teachers (even some in high school) are not trained in mathematics.
Alan
Our children need to learn basic math skills. I support this initiative.
Russ Carlson, Calgary AB
Why is it that basic reading, writing and arithmetic are now the responsibility of parents?
A nice initiative; we must do something about this problem.
Father of two teens – Grades 9 and 11 – struglling with the Ontario math curriculum.
Dennis Weichman, Toronto,ON
While at Teacher’s College in 1970 I was criticized by a professor for being old-fashioned in my approach to trigonometry. I was told that I had to “swing with the pendulum” of educational trends if I wanted to succeed as a teacher. Being a stubborn young student at the time I refused to change and have felt like a rebel for the last 40+ years. When I discovered WISE Math in an article in Maclean’s and read many of the comments on this web site I just had to lend a voice of support. Since my “retirement” in 1998 I have been tutoring high school (and Grade 8) students and have in the last few years written a series of Math Study Guides based on the Ontario High School Curriculum. I then added a Grade 8 book “Get Ready For High School Math” and talked to many Grade 8 teachers who seemed quite happy to get a “No-nonsense” review of fractions, decimals, percents, simple algebra etc…..things that they felt were important but were afraid to depart from the course description!
The curriculum all across our country ( not just Ontario, I have learned) is controlled by academics who make a name for themselves ( and a secure job) by making parents feel inadequate.WISE is an important initiative in that it gives parents a forum which hopefully can be used to change what is taught and how it is taught.
I agree with this initiative . After 17 years as a post secondary instructor and program head, I am greatly concerned by the increasingly poor level of math skills in our appliants to our program, from the K-12 system. We now have to add in tutorials on top of the regular class room work , so that students can grasp the basic math foundations. This deterioration of math skills in secondary schools ultimately harms the students in their other courses, in post secondary, making them struggle more than should be necessary.
I am the parent of 3 children. I have degrees in Math and Statistics. I now work as a tutor helping children learn math. All the changes to the curriculum seem to make learning math more complicated for children and I totally support the WISE initiative.
You need the basics before you “go outside the box”. I am a former Educator who has a granddaughter in this system. The teachers are not Math majors and can’t/don’t know how to teach the new Math and parents have trouble understanding it. That alone has a great impact on a child’s self esteem.
I support.
Michael Maloney, Teach Your Children Well, Belleville ON K8N 5B6 1-877-368-1513
Trained as a teacher in 1964, I left public education 45 years ago in frustration and started my own learning centres. Using empirically proven methods, Behavior Analysis, Direct Instruction and Precision Teaching, all developed during the 70′s, we have successfully taught math and reading to 100,000 children and adults.
It’s all about better teaching tools. We have them because a small hearty group of scientifically-minded educators provides and improves them for us to use. Sadly our teachers are never provided with them, or even know about them, so they struggle mightily as best they can. It’s time for education to move into the world of scientific scrutiny of its methods and to select those proven to deliver results to our kids. We have them and are happy to share.
My bright articulate daughter (grade 4) began slipping in her mathematics this year, and the homework began to reflect the overcomplicating procedures that now exist as the “soup de jour” in elementary mathematics. I addressed the issue with her Private Catholic School, and they suggested the need for Teacher’s Assistants in the classroom. I suggested, as math is my strength, a return to appropriate mathematics education. As stated above, the Maclean’s Article is very timely. Mathematics and also Grammar, are not properly taught in the school systems, and frankly, as a parent educated on four continents, I am appalled with the education that is presently fed to our children. How did this process come to be? How can this be rectified, and when will this be resolved? These are the three questions, that I want answers to. …….preferably before my daughter’s self esteem is reduced any further…
I am deeply troubled, I would like consistent updates pertaining to the progress this organization makes with the Ministry of Education.
Reply from Sandra Roberts:
I too feel this way. I have sent my concerns directly to the Minister of Education for our province. Perhaps that may be a good starting point for all of us. We need to deluge their inboxes and write to them for this much needed change. Canada is falling behind other countries in our scholastic skills. We need to demand our politicians legislate this revision to our school curriculum immediately, regardless of what province we are from.
Message from Tara Houle, BC:
I have already emailed 2 letters to our Minister of Education here in BC about the dismal math teachings in our schools. I would like to see if anyone is interested in connecting here in BC to see if we can bring awareness of this problem to other parents/politicians/educators in this province.
Message from WISE Math: If you are in BC and are interested in connecting with Tara Houle, please email contactwisemath@gmail.com
My sons in grades 1 and 3 bring home quantities of math “activities” and homework that I cannot help them with. When I do explain how to do simple addition or subtraction, I’m told I’m doing it wrong, I have to “rename” it, or do three different sums to get to the final answer. School is hard enough – one son has trouble reading – and now our family life is disrupted and taken over by the stress of homework and poor teaching methods that the teachers are forced to adhere to.
Rebecca Clarke, Deep Bight, NL.
C. Berriman Regina Saskatchewan
I completely agree that the approach to Math in the schools is greatly ineffective. Problem solving requires the kind of reasoning skills that not all young and growing brains have fully developed. Certainly basic hands on, concept development is necessary but in the end actual knowledge of the skill should be the ultimate goal with major emphasis on such.
Karen Love, Calgary, alberta
My daughter is grade 6 and I struggle to help her with the math and although math was never my strength I am not a stupid person…but I feel it when she brings home math homework.
Robert Cahn, Victoria BC
As a retired classroom teacher (but still involved in math education as an author) I am totally aghast at the removal of basc math skills and drills from elementary (and secondary) education. I have seen firsthand the frustration of students who, for example, cannot do long division. In senior high school this is crucial for doing polynomial division. Students who do not understand the fraction algorithms will have trouble with algebra around Grade 9!
The problem is partially caused by untrained teachers in both elementary and secondary schools struggling to teach mathematics, when they know little more than their students. Furthermore in other subjects teachers have moved away from traditional curricula, e.g. the teaching of English grammar and spelling, and spend endless time reviewing novels, as if this were the only form of English worth learning!
Perhaps this group needs to connect with teachers of English, Science and Information Technology in order to ensure that future students are not TOTALLY de-skilled from the basics of each subject.
Good luck!
Reply from Alan Donald:
Robert:
You bring up a point that has been bothering me: How can students handle high school algebra if they are not fluent in arithmetic? Answer — they can’t, While I appreciate the frustration of parents forced to fill in the gaps left by the schools, what annoys me most is the oblivion of the WNCP creators to the requirements of later grades. Never mind polynomial division, a student who cannot divide 3/5 by 6/5 is going to be completely floored by (x-1)/x divided by 1/x.
Alan Donald, Vancouver, BC
Reply from Robert Cahn:
Thanks for your reply…sadly it seems that even algebra might be too difficult for high school students of the future. Another area that seems to have disappear is the technique of “proof”…students are given formulas and algorithms without proving them.
Sometimes this is necessary, but mostly we should be proving the mathematics that we teach, as this is the foundation of what mathematics is!
P.J.Umpherville Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Thank you for this initiative – i fully support it. After spending 2 frustrating years trying to get my eldest daughter to understand basic math, she finally asked me for some outside help. After a mere 6 months at a learning centre, she is way ahead of her schoolmates in math skills, and went from hating math and having no self confidence, to excelling in math and is full of confidence again (she’s in Grade 5). It was her lack of confidence in her math, which was causing all sorts of problems both at school, and here in the home. At the same time, my youngest daughter (Grade 4) is going backward in her math skills. After being taught simple math here in the home, she is now in a classroom where graphs, computer games and grids are taking the place of flash cards and multiplication tables. It looks as if we’ll now have to try and budget to accommodate additional learning for her in the next school year.
The article in Maclean’s magazine last week was timely. I have always feared that the current math teaching methods in our public schools is creating a 2 tiered level of education for our kids. For those kids whose parents are able to tutor math themselves, or can send them to an outside learning centre, they will have a far greater advantage over the MAJORITY of kids whose families are unable to assist their kids in the same capacity. This is WRONG and simply UNFAIR as learning Math skills are a basic tenet of public education. How many more columns and articles need to be written before the Minister of Education starts LISTENING to the chorus of discontent with the current math curriculum being taught in our schools?
The stats are in, and employers and educators alike are flabbergasted, dismayed and frustrated to find these future workers do NOT have the necessary skills required for the workforce. Bring back multiplication tables and long division. It’s a basic skill required for our children’s future.
Tara Houle
North Saanich, BC
Leave the calculators out until the basics are taught and fully understood to progress to higher math concepts even in the private school systems.
I strongly support this initiative. MMS must go.
Carleen Koop, Calgary, AB parent of 2 boys (8 and 10)
I am currently a special ed teacher with a background in Maths and Sciences. I did my teacher training 25 years ago in elementary education. I have taught grades 1 through 10 and tutored in the prison system. I have been very concerned about Maths education since the beginning. In my graduation year, out of several hundred graduates I was the only elementary combined Maths/Science concentration (the only one for 6 years) and my friend from home (who had a degree in Physics and Astronomy) was the only one with a Maths concentration. Though both of us had university Maths credits, we told we had to take a foundations Math course with other elementary candidates. We were shocked at the number of high school graduates who did not have a basic understanding of the number system, confusion with anything beyond basic algorithms, nor any awareness of logic. These people were mostly interested in reading, nurturing children, or music – particularly those who were aiming for the primary grades. Most of them admitted that they disliked or were uncomfortable with Maths. They are teaching today and were to pass on this bias to their students. When I got struggling students in grade 8, the break-down was usually traced back to around grade 3.
Working with teens and adults, I discovered a lot of anxiety and reluctance regarding Maths. I had fellows flunk basic operations who could figure out how to cut X amount of pot to make X amount of money in their heads. They had learned Math in school but did not connect it to functional applications in life. Once we made the connection with concrete applications they had no more problem with Maths.
I currently have 2 children in middle school with the new system. Both were able to figure out basic math applications at an early age; they are both very confused at this point. Trying to learn too many things at once. Having to use every strategy for every problem is overwhelming, and is confusing them. And despite my credentials, I cannot help them because they have to do it the school way – any alternate approach is too much. Apparently “Math has changed since the olden days” – well, yeah, I am still doing stuff the ancient Greeks and Egyptians figured out for me.
I think you have isolated the two most urgent concerns.
PS You think this curriculum is tough for your kids, try doing it in Braille!
Amanda McGuire, Okotoks, Alberta, parent to three boys (aged 12, 10 & 7)
I come from a family of math-related profressions: Mother – Math Teacher (with a physics/math undergrad and masters in math); Father – Docter; my 2 brothers and I are all engineers. They way math has been taught (or not taught…) to my daughter (now 12) is definitely leaving a gap in her skill set. When I sit with her to review homework or prepare for tests, if I can’t teach it the same way as in class, she’s even more confused and dismayed. Since math is cumulative learning, I’m scared it may be too late and limit her choices before she even has a choice. Kristi, Vancouver, BC
Davan Russell, Edmonton, AB
As a young engineer who uses basic math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division) daily and more complicated math regularly I know the importance of a good basis in understanding how to do math quickly and easily. I fully support the initiatives of WISE Math. Not a parent yet, but I would want my children to have the best math education possible and question if the current curriculum would complete that objective.
I have two children, four years apart in age. I have seen the results of this new math strategy in my son’s math performance. Upon the introduction of this “improved” method of teaching math his mark has dropped from an A to a B. (His other grades have not). In addition to being confusing to both high and low achievers alike, I believe that there is a gender bias in the program. The program asks the student to explain why and how the answers were obtained and “showing your work” is not enough. Boys in particular do not like this. It doesn’t help them either. There is nothing wrong with learning robust strategies first. Yes let’s give them the steps first and shortcuts later. Delayed epiphanies are perfectly fine. A grade five student does not need five strategies for rounding numbers. One method is fine to start with. If nothing else let’s return to the older math program that my daughter has been taught. At least she does not struggle in math in high school. One more thing, in early elementary, my son was better in math than his older sister… until the newest math program was introduced. To quote my son “… math is so so boring now…”. This is from a child in grade 8, about the time when math actually should become a whole lot more interesting.
Jennifer Walsh, Edmonton, parent of a student in grade 2. I spend every night working with my daughter, trying to teach her basic math facts. My daughter has learned a million different strategies on how to add and subtract numbers, but when she sits down to solve the simplest equations (ex. 2 + 3), she cannot answer them. She is inundated by strategies, with no concept of why she is being taught all these different methods, and confused over which one to use. She HATES math; she thinks she is stupid, and yet she does well in every other subject. As a parent, I am literally frightened for her future. This curriculum is failing her.
Erin
Prince George, BC
Bryn
Red deer Ab
Eve Thorne, Calgary, Alberta
I support the initiative.
After not being involved in math for almost 27 years, I’ve lost most of it. I would not be able to help my child beyond the most basic skills.
Trish Miles – Edmonton, Alberta – Straight As in math through Math 31 – can’t help my daughter with her grade 5 math! It doesn’t make any sense to either one of us.
If teachers in China can teach classes with 70+ students to be mathematical geniuses, then there’s no excuse for math teachers in Canada to have any problems whatsoever with such small class sizes.
Reply from Ken Corbett:
Hi Thadd: Students in China produce successful math students for many reasons. In China, students have family/societal pressures to preform and teachers have much control over students. The curriculum is far more advanced than the artsy/fartsy Canadian curriculum. As a retired math teacher I have watched with dismay at the Ministry of Education continually water down the math taught to students. Many young teachers in Canada are brainwashed into following the latest fads to hit education and the latest textbooks, the lack of basic drill and practice etc and etc show you where we are headed. No wonder the math, engineering and science faculties at universities are crammed with Oriental students. Teachers in lower grades in Canada often have little math training and many do not like math. The system here prevents students from doing well in math.
I am a parent of a grade 5 student, and I say what a waste of 5yrs. of math classes. We’ve had to teach our daughter all the math she knows.
i support your mission and believe it should be canada-wide……
I thought it was just me at first, it is quite nice to know that there are other parents that feel the same way as I. This curriculum must be taken back to the way it was.
Mom to two kids one boy 9 and a girl 12.
Jennifer Lutz, Winnipeg
I have three boys grades 2-7 and have been frustrated with the lack of common sense rote learning. I know it’s not fashionable for kids to have a comprehensive grasp of basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division concepts from much first hand experience. We regularly enhance learning at home to compensate. I support this initiative, and hope that teachers can teach in ways they know support learning!
Pengfei Guan, parent of two childern, faculty member at Mcgill University.
Calgary, Alberta
Please bring back rote learning for the sake of our children. They need to be better prepared for more advanced math. I have two children in Gr. 4 and am concerned that they are nat learning the basics.
How many of us who support changing the Math back to the way it was are there in this website? Does anyone know? Who do we contact as a group to effect this much needed change?
Sandra Roberts
Edmonton, Alberta
Hi Sandra,
As far as I know, there are 756 of us, including you. To help keep this movement growing, let everyone you know who does is unhappy with math education and the current program know about WISE Math and this petition. In Saskatchewan, we have another petition going to get the government to listen to our concerns. I would suggest that Albertans band together and do the same thing. Once one or two provinces start to pay attention and do right by our children, maybe others will follow suit. Good luck to you.
Hi Sandra,
First, I suggest writing a letter to your Minister of Education. Draw attention to this website. We have managed to get the Saskatchewan government and the Manitoba government to at least acknowledge that the curriculum needs to be investigated. It is not clear if action will be taken, though, and we need to keep pressuring them. We don’t have as many voices in Alberta right now and strong voices are the key to change. I echo Janine’s advice. Please let as many people as you can know about WISE Math and recommend that they sign. As soon as a large group have signed form Alberta, we can send out messages and make suggestions for how to band together. AS
From Sandra Roberts:
From Sandra Roberts to the Honorable Minister of Education:
Dear Minister of Education,
I’m not sure if you are aware of this but parents, teachers, engineers, doctors and professionals all over Canada are joining their voices as one to voice their concerns about the ‘New’ math that is being taught in our provinces. I have had 2 children in the system and both are bright children who have given up trying because it is too confusing and onerous to understand. One dropped out and left the system completely while the other one has been kicked out for not doing the homework and losing his motivation for school as a result.
This matter has been discussed in great detail on 630 CHED on the Dave Rutherford Show twice at least. He has a great listenership, with an audience all across Canada and we need something done expeditiously.
There is a website that we have banded together to place our concerns on. Please, for the sake of our children visit it and see what we are saying because Alberta’s dropout rate is going to get worse. If you are the minister of education while this is happening the public will be turning to you for answers.
Here is the link:
http://wisemath.org
I hope that you will consider this an important enough of a matter to actually do something to save our drowning children.
Respectfully yours,
Sandra Roberts
Edmonton, Alberta
Additional comment left by Sandra Roberts: We need 7.56 million of us…
[Further comment April 26, 2012] This is my experience as well. And I was born here in Edmonton, Alberta. We weren’t allowed to use calculators unless we could do everything by using our heads first. And teachers knew how to teach more than one different way if a student could not understand the material being taught, which they haven’t been able to do for at least 15 to 20 years now. Those who didn’t had to practise alot to earn the use of the calculator. Dead batteries in calculators meant using the brain to finish an exam… We became proficient in almost every subject through constant practice. It is why I have ‘corrected’ teachers notes and sent homework back to school with all the edits much to their frustration! I’ve even created math worksheets and charts that teachers implemented for classroom use to make teaching basics more understandable. Nowadays when kids don’t ‘get it’ they send the work home and newer parents who do not have the same basic training as myself are lost. And the teacher moves on to the new material. If a student cannot understand the basic material then they begin to not understand all the more higher concepts later on. Knowledge is built upon prior knowledge. I compare it to skipping from grade one to high school over night. How successful would that be? Think about it.
[Prior comment March 14, 2012] This is outrageous. My son is 15 and he has no textbooks in Math. There is nothing to refer to when we need examples of the math concepts. He cannot do cursive writing, cannot write an essay, and iPads are recommended for students at the school. He doesn’t understand almost anything in Math despite being a very bright child who can verbalize adult concepts and ideas. Enough is enough. This insanity has to end somewhere.
Addendum:
Because of the frustration my son has experienced in school he has given up trying to understand in class. This is looked at as refusal to cooperate in class and homework assignments and he has been kicked out of school. I’m so tired of this education system. I wish that parents could start a free after school teaching program that uses the old method of doing things. Why can’t we do something. We need to take charge of this now. Make it a movement BEFORE the snow melts!
Shirley Catton, Kelowna, BC
as an aid in the classroom, I see that students that don’t have their basic facts memorized struggle to keep up in the higher levels.
We have the same problem here in the United States. I add my name and support to your cause.
I agree. I have 3 children and a degree in engineering. The teaching methods and curriculum are very saddening – they are doing a disservice to our children who will need these skills more than ever in this technologically driven world.
Kelowna, BC. You have to own the facts before you can truly enjoy, understand, and appreciate the utility and beauty of mathematics! Free working memory to think deeply.
Lisa Myers-Sortland, concerned parent
Caroline Chupa
Williams Lake, B.C.
The new curriculum changes are especially difficult for students with learning challenges or gaps from previous years.
I have been a teacher since 1959 and have taught in 3 different provinces and many different grades and schools. Rote learning has been denigrated and discouraged for years. The new methods for math has brought many student to tears, and others to just accept the conceit that they are doing well and don’t need it. I believe rote learning and drills, for math particularly, is the best method for most of these kids and should be taught in schools as a basis. Other explanations and methods can be demonstrated for interest sake and for quick learners, but basic math is an essential for literacy. If not, their natural belief in self-esteem will become seriously tested as they grow into adulthood.
I teach Math 8 and have seen student struggles and parent frustrations increase exponentially since this new curriculum has been implemented. The amount of time spent teaching the “model(s)” for a concept can be astronomical. In the recent Maclean’s article, Debbie Duval, one of the developers of the new curriculum, states, “We want to provide options for kids.” Yes, we know students learn in a variety of ways and, “Taking into account all learners’ styles and capabilities is another big part of the approach.”
This is where, in my opinion, the new curriculum has gone to the other end of the spectrum. In the article a Hamilton, Ont. teacher describes how multiplication is taught, “Each group, she says, brainstormed a different strategy, such as repeated addition, adding partial products, or using a manipulative, like Base Ten Blocks. “Traditionally, you’d get your algorithm and you would just do it,” says Dwyer-Mitchell. “But they’re free to use whatever works best for them.”
They work in groups to brainstorm strategies, great. But of course, some students are left struggling and still don’t have something that works best for them. So, other strategies still need to be taught. Eventually the struggling students can be so overwhelmed with “strategies”, they don’t know where to begin.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard students say, when the algorithm is eventually introduced, “Why don’t we just do it that way? Why didn’t you just show us that first?”. I couldn’t agree more!
When I asked my daughter’s grade eight math teacher why he hadn’t given even one sheet of homework from September to January, he said yes he could have done better. When I asked him why he did not teach using rote learning, he said rote learning has been proven not to work. When I asked him how he was taught math and ended up being a math teacher, he said he was taught using rote learning. When I told my son’s math teacher the only way he learned things such as hockey, music etc was by rote learning and practice, she said rote learning doesn’t work for learning multiplication. Therefore my son didn’t learn multiplication tables properly until at least grade 8, barely even then. We are seeing a massive disservice to Canadian students all over the country in the area of mathematics.
I have been teaching middle school for over 10 years. I have noticed a big difference in the abilities of the students, as time has passed – for the worse. We are encouraged to focus on concepts and problem solving, meanwhile the students are not equipped with enough math skills to understand or solve them. Thank you for this initiative, and I hope that this might start a similar discussion in other parts of Canada.
The ability of our youth to do basic math has been on a steady decline. We need changes made to our system fast.
Patrick Allardyce, Kelowna, BC. I could not agree more with this article. I t is unfortunate district leaders semm not to understand or care.
More time should be spent in the middle years to develop confidence on all the basic skills. Math had become a Language Arts programs with more words than numbers. It used to be that math was one side of the brain and L.A. the other side; now the subjects are on one side. Too many words…math is dealing with numbers. Lets get it right!
I agree with Cecilia Pintos [who left an earlier comment]..totally.
We are supporting our grandchildren by covering the costs of private school after seeing what happened to our children in the public system. How sad is that?
Monty Peckover Minnedosa MB . Professional Engineer
Two kids girl and boy 12 and 10.
The kids and I do long division and times table multiple problems before bed.
Learning what pi is tonight and the relationship to the circle.
I support this initiative.
I am so glad to see that a movement is afoot to address these issues. I have always loved and excelled at math and am completely frustrated with the “math” that my children bring home from school. I cannot fathom why these changes to this absolute subject were ever embraced! Thank you.
Elizabeth Kuranoff, Delaware , Ontario
Don Nakonechny, Regina, Sask.
Very much in favor of this initiative and hope it brings about some much needed change in Mathematics education generally. Basic arithmetic skills are an absolute MUST in order to progress to higher learning in Mathematics (Algebra, Calculus, etc.).
Sandra Mathers, Ottawa, Ontario
Hello. I am happy someone is doing something about the disaster unfolding in our education system with regard to math. Both my daughters could not succesfully complete their grade 12 level math. Both took it twice and both were tutored at great expense to us. Despite our best efforts, my one child failed twice. My second child failed once and dropped math the second time to protect her GPA. My seond child has been on the honor role all thorugh high school but for some reason couldn’t master math. This is a huge problem and has impacted both my children’s ability to get into the programs they wanted in University. Something needs to be done! I fully support this initative changes need to occur or we will have a lot of students coming out of highschool without proper mathmatical skills and limiting career options. Good luck!
When your kids are in tears, and you can’t explain what the text book is trying to teach, it’s time to use old school math. Kumon worked wonders, drills drills drills! Both our kids were struggling and behind in Math with “Math Makes Sense” and after a year in Kumon outside of school hours, our kids are both top in their classes. I tell them to ignore the text book and the teacher and just do the math, based on what they have learned at home and at Kumon. It sucks to tell your kids to IGNORE their teacher.
We grew tired of seeing our kids (12 and 8 ) come home demoralized by Math struggles…trying to help, we discovered exactly why they were confused. We ended up using a service that basically used the most basic of tools (practice and repetition) to accomplish in 20 minutes a day what the school could not. They now top their classes in math…funny how that works. Will not mention the name of the service as I don’t want to push any particular company on this forum.
We’re so happy to see others who are tired of this as well. In a good way of course!
For a guy who likes to do math, I dread helping my son (grade 5) with his math homework. Most nights there is crying, fighting and yelling at our kitchen table because of this…and that’s just from me not wanting to do it.
YES! Last year, when my daughter was having difficulty with multiplication “strategies”, I kept her home one day, and helped her. As part of that, I had her fill in the answers on a standard multiplication table from 0 to 10. When she took it to school the next day, the teacher confiscated it, saying “we don’t use these anymore.”
This year, when I taught her the standard algorithm for multiplying multi-digit numbers, I told her to call it “Dad’s Strategy.” The next day, she told me she had taught it to a work-partner at school. She was excited to have a method that worked every time!
Scott Walde, Saskatoon, SK.
Angela Caragata Moose Jaw, SK Frustrated parent
I am a High School adminstrator and Mathematics teacher. Mathematics is proving to be a very frustrating subject for many students. They do not have the basics required to understand High School Mathematics. So much time is spent teaching students what a fraction is before you can even start rational expressions. It is not the student’s fault. I feel for them. Students do not have a better conceptual understanding of mathematics than they did using algorithms. They are becoming overwhelmed and frustrated. So are Secondary Mathematics teachers.
Thank you for doing this I am in strong support of returning to basics. Our children have no clue on the basic concept of math. As mother of 3 children that have completed their education I have always fought for lets teach the basics. Thank you again and you have my support.
Susan Fraser London, Ontario
Shocked and appalled at the state of education all over the country.
I am convinced the math programs in British Columbia need to be overhauled from the ground up. A huge majority of kids have decided by grade 8 that they “aren’t good at math.” This attitude is the result of foolishly-designed programs that obscure more than they enlighten. I know a man who was a student in a one-room school in Manitoba in the 1950′s and everyone came out of that institution (Grades 1-8) with a good grasp of math basics. My mother had a grade seven education in the Netherlands (in the 1930′s) and has a better grasp of basic math than most of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
Absolutely. Our kids are now in post-secondary programs, but I cannot count the hours of work to supplement the math instruction (or mis-instruction) they were getting through elementary and high school years.
Dean Cardno
Richmond, BC
As much as I would like to help my Grand kids , there is no way that can happen. The frustration on her face says it all We need to get back to basics
A frustrated Grandparent
Ronda Wedhorn, Moose Jaw, SK Bachelor of Ed.
One daughter age 14. I pulled her out of school to homeschool her as going in to grade 8
she could not do basic math; multiply, divide, subtract, no clue of the times tables, fractions, etc.. NO concept of basic math. How would she ever get a job or do math out in the real world?? It is not only math though – she never was taught cursive writing either. Seems like all the basic skills are lacking across curriculum.
I STRONGLY support you.
[RC -- Merged from subsequent comment:]
Maybe we could get a math group going in Moose Jaw? any thoughts?
Arron Driscoll – Merrickville Ontario – parent of 1 daughter so far.
Thank you for this. I fully support this.
It is important that we share this information through social media, emails and other forms with colleagues and friends. Retired High School and University Mathematics Instructor.
I suppport your very important initiative.
SIgned
A frustrated parent.
I’m totally in support of your objectives and I would like anyone else from Ontario, and especially Ottawa to contact me and see if we can get an Ontario counterpart to this group going. clive.packer (at) gmail.com.
[Merged later comment below -- RC]
Leah, I’d like to see if we can get a local Ontario or Ottawa group going along the lines of what WISEMATH is doing for the west. Please feel free to drop me a note. clive.packer (at) gmail.com.
Thomas Sketchley of Aldergrove BC.
I heard about this when you were on Charles Adler. Thank you so much. My daughter is in grade nine and just moved from California to live with us here. She was 3/4 (three quarters, for the word based math people :)) of the way through math in California with straight A’s. She had to start from scratch up here with the semester system and isn’t able to get over 65% with this silly system.
I support this initiative all the way.
Ilsa Krukoff, retired middle years teacher, Regina
I was disturbed in the latter years of my teaching career about the direction that the math curriculum was taking. The only surprise to me is how long it has taken for this to become voiced as the concern it obviously is. Thank you for voicing it loud and clear by launching this initiative. The recent article in Macleans should certainly be a wake-up call as well.
We need to see this system of teaching Math change. I am so frustrated with the system in place, my 9 year old son is falling way behind and when we tried to teach him our way , his teacher asked us to let him learn her method. he knows less now than 6 months ago.Untill today I was seriously thinking he had an attention disorder or somthing else , I heard about this movement on the Charles Adler show . THIS IS WRONG BRING BACK THE OLD METHOD.
A Weir, Burnaby, BC
I have a son in Grade 6 and he needs extra support to understand basic math skills. He is getting better but only with home support. I also feel the lack of instruction in cursive writing is a mistake and should be looked at as an important component in the development of hand eye coordination.
I am concerned about the lack of basic math skills being taught, and agree with this initiative.
My husband and I read about this initiative in the latest issue of Maclean’s. I can’t tell you how relieved we were to hear that we aren’t alone in our aggravation. We spend 30 frustrating minutes per day teaching our son how to do ‘the new math’- and the time is coming when we will have to start doing the same for our daughter. We, also, spend about 10 minutes each day teaching him ‘the old math’- which brings with it no frustration!
[See subsequent reply by "Clive" in comment above -- WISE Math (RC)]
Thank you for bringing focus to this issue. I have struggled for 7 years trying to teach my son the “gaps” in math skills he does not learn at school.
Curt Schroeder
Regina, Saskatchewan
Shannon Wiebe
Winnipeg, MB
Debbie, Winnipeg Manitoba
I support this !!!
I can’t understand why we moved away from the way math was taught when I was in school, I am utterly frustrated that I can’t help my kids with homework.
I support this
Tanya Cotroneo, Winnipeg, Manitoba, mother of 11 year old twins in grade 6.
I have been frustrated with the “new way of doing math” since my kids were in grade 2! For the past year I have been paying a tutor to help my children with math because I myself do not understand these “short cuts” my kids are being taught. As much as we like the tutor, I do not like this extra expense… not to mention another weekly commitment…
I was so confused when my son went to show me his math…. Problem is … So was he. I went to the teacher in the morning and he showed me. I was amazed at how the education is teaching kids that taking shortcuts is the fastest way. Problem is that it allows for mistakes. Old school allowed for the work to be done and a step by step process that breaks down each part so you can actually see what you did. I showed my son old school and he had better success with that. I guess when you look at it it’s like cooking a burger except the education system likes theirs microwaved.
Please, why when it is so obvious to so many parents and results of our math comprehension proves that our system is wrong do we have educators with their heads in the sand. I am a retired engineer and cannot believe the lack of basic skill that new engineers are bringing to the work place.
Please make them change before it’s way too late to compete with other countries that have their act in order.
Brenda Lang (Saskatoon, SK)
I homeschooled my oldest daughter until she was in grade 4 when I had to return to the workforce. I taught her math the old fashioned way and although she was not a strong math student she did well. Once she began school and was taught “new” methods, she really started to struggle. I assisted her as best I could but by grade 10, I had to hire tutors to get her through as I could not help her anymore although I had high 90′s in math all through school and am an accountant by trade. As a single parent the extra tutoring was a financial hardship. Now my younger daughter who is in grade ten has been exposed 100% with the new math and she too is struggling and I cannot be of assistance. Again I am paying tutoring costs for something that I am already paying taxes for! Something needs to change.
My daughter left her elementary school to go to middle school in grade 5. I’ve had several conversations with her grade 4 teacher in school, asking her to please teach my daughter her basic facts. Her reply was that they were not allowed to teach that anymore. When she was halfway through grade 5, I got an email from her math teacher saying he expected the kids to know their basic facts! I was flabbergasted. When exactly was she supposed to have picked up that skill?
She felt dumb compared to some of the kids that apparently had practised at home at that was the motivation we used to teach her ourselves. Luckily she was able to pick it up fairly quick. Now we are practising with our younger son as well..
In The Netherlands (were we are from originally) kids are still taught their basic facts in school. I wonder why Canada thinks it is an unimportant skill?
Jennifer Smith, Mom of 2 (Gr.2, Gr.4) Calgary, Alberta. This is why home schooling was looked into.
Dr. Daniel Martin
Spruce Grove
Alberta
I share many of the concerns mentioned here. When I try to help my daughter memorize the times table facts, she is very resistant, having been told that she doesn’t need to know them and that she has strategies that she can use to figure out the correct answer. But oh, it is painful (and time consuming) to watch that process! Her grade 4 math teacher told me last year that he didn’t care if she got the correct answer to a problem as long as he could see that she knew how to get there. Great – I wonder what her boss will say in twenty years when the bridge she builds falls down because she didn’t quite get the correct answer (but she was close!).
I’m sick to death of the idiotic method of teaching math to kids nowadays. It’s ridiculous to try and make a child understand something they haven’t learned to comprehend yet. Bring back basic math lessons and let’s get our kids back up to par with every other child in the modern world!
Susie Schmidt, Edmonton, Alberta
I am one of those parents who is beyond frustrated at the way math is now being taught in our schools. It is the most confusing procedure and method to teach basic math. When talking to my son’s teacher about his difficulties in math, I had asked why it is taught so confusingly and he replied that it was how they are told to in the curriculum. I asked what ever happened to memorizing the times table or addition table and he told me, in an almost secretive manner, that yes, perhaps this was the best way for him to learn his basic math. Funny, even the teachers don’t agree with the manner in which they are FORCED to teach! I re-iterate FORCED! If they don’t, they are fired. Sad, considering their best interest is the student being successful in school.
north battleford, saskatchewan, canada
Michelle Wiens, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, parent to three children (9,10,11)
Christine, Consort, Alberta
Mother of two – Grades 4 &6. Speech-Language Pathologist by trade. Fully support this initiative and website. I am educated and trained to help children learn concepts of curriculum and CANNOT even help my own children with “new math”. When I asked one of my children’s teachers to help me help my own children, I was told “I am not sure I can explain it to you exactly” – Well if teachers cannot explain it to the parents who have foundations in mathemathics and have excelled in math in the past, then how can we trust them to teach our children!!! – New math is utterly illogical & has no foundations in child development or neurological development/capacities. I spend $$ each month to establish basic math skills in my own children, despite their success in the school
Eric Marr, Calgary Alberta
We need a foundation for our kids to build on!
Wendy Menard, Calgary, parent of 3 (ages 6, 8 and 11), Certified General Accountant. I volunteer at the school my children go to. I am surprised how simple math (adding) is extremely difficult for grade 5 and 6 students. They keep reaching for a calculator. How are these students going to function going further?
Carson & Maria Hirner, Pickering, ONT; two boys aged 6 & 11.
Chris Henke, Calgary
I have 2 elementary school aged children, and am shocked at how math is being taught now. Some things in life just need to be memorized for ease of use! I’m not against explaining the process, but math always seemed structured to me growing up, with rules you had to follow. Now it appears to have become an “open relationship”! Hope to see some reversion back to traditional methods soon!
Saskatoon, Sk.
I agree wholly, math needs to be learned as math, the rules are simple and should be taught simply, learning through repetition. I think the education system is missing the boat with how they have moved to teach math to everyones learning style. It needs to be learned through repetition and practice despite learning style.
Back to basics…thank you for taking the time to care about our children’s education! I totally support the initiative.
I fully support the initiative.
Dave Bernardin, Calgary, Ab
I am a programmer with strong math skills. I spend a lot of time teaching my 3 kids math. They are not learning it at school. We need to spend more time learning the basics… simple math. Then they can move on to other things.
I’ve been working on multiplication tables with my daughter since she was 3… Thank you for bringing this to the forefront !
Kevin Denouden, parent to 7 children (5 through 15), in Regina, SK
So,so frustrated with math in our schools. Currently have 4 kids in the system grades 6-12. As time goes by my kids are having more and more difficulty with math and I am unable to help them even though I was a straight A+ student myself. Please help!! Thank you for stepping up. Juanita Dueck , Unity, SK
Andy Leong, Calgary, Alberta
I made it through university level calculus without ever cutting paper into strips, I loved every math class I ever took, and even took every math class that was offerred at my high school, and if this had been the curriculum when I was in school, I probably would’ve hated math completely.
This will be like the phonics kids of the 80′s who are illiterate. I don’t want to see my child struggle through life because she can’t understand basic math.
In my business my employees must get 4 when they add 2+2, no approximation allowed or we will go broke. Who will we be able to hire in a few years? Maybe the dog needs to remind the tail who wags who. Keep up the good work and start going after government at the MLA level.
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I support this initiative. Currently paying $1400.00 per year for Kumon Math!
Director of Education (SK) and Superintendent of Schools (BC), retired.
I am in support of this initiative.
I’m all for this initiative! Lets help our students get the best education possible.
Help us help our children learn the fundamentals of mathematics. Thank you.
I support this initiative 100%.
Amela Basic-Bilic
Winnipeg, MB
I support this initiative 100%. P. Lawson, Cochrane, Alberta
Susan Goldie, Winnipeg, MB
Parent of two aged 6 & 9
We need our future generation to be highly skilled in math but unfortunately today, we have so many students disliking math. Lets get back to the traditional methods. Students will get the conceptual understanding as they grow older and develop more math maturity.
I support this initiative. I am a mathematics professor at the University of Regina, and have two children who went through the K-8 system.
I have a daughter here in Moncton, NB who is struggling with math in grade 3. We have tried to get extra help for the last year and a half with no results. First we were told that they assessed her and she knew too much, now since she is in french immersion, we were told that there are no resource teachers available in french immersion math.
We are now sending her to Sylvan Learning centre at $42/hour, which I can’t really afford, and plan to fight the province for full reimbursment when we are done. They cannot supply proper teaching, so I believe they are liable.
Hi Jim,
I agree with you. I have been shocked to learn how many parents have been forced to pay for tutoring so that there children can get a decent foundation in math. Perhaps a class action lawsuit is warranted! AS
As a parent I am strongly supporting this cause. I was an elementary school teacher in Romania with 10 years of teaching experience. I ended up fighting every day with my daughter, who is in second grade that she could not understand math. ” Mom I don’t get it” she was saying all the time. Than finally I convinced her to do the way as I used to teach my students years ago. She picked up very fast, her grades improved and math became a pleasure. She got only one comment once, the teacher said she was doing it a bit different,but the results were good.
Heinz Bauschke, Kelowna, BC, father of two girls (aged 4 & 14),
Mathematics Professor and Canada Research Chair
Thank you very much for initiating WISE Math. I became aware of it because of the Macleans cover story in March, which made our family chuckle.
This problem can in theory be fixed by switching back to traditional and proven texts, and by hiring future teachers who fully understand the material they are teaching. In practice, however, I am not very optimistic because this would not be a popular move, and because of the huge influence of the Faculties of Education. While our great country can always rely on natural resources to prosper, it continues to astound me to witness an apparent “knowledge suicide”, especially here in the West. Even my older daughter was puzzled about the mere existence of “Western edition” math school books…
Oliver, BC
Let’s fix this or society not just our children will suffer.
I support this initiative. I would like firstly, to see teachers supported in the good work they do, and secondly to see stronger math and science foundation skills starting in elementary school.
Deborah levesque,regina…mother of five. I support this.
Mark Harding, Regina, SK
I support this.
Tanya Levesque, Regina….parent of two (10&6)
I am extremely frustrated that i cannot help my child understand his math. The way he is being taught is completely different from when i was in school. I also worry that with him not even understanding the basics he will continue to struggle, become even more frustrated than he is and give up…
I have two children in elementary school and both are struggling to understand this new math and the way that it is being taught to them. I worry that they will be lost when they are in highschool as the basics skills do not seem to be a part of this new curriculum.
Retired Social Worker, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Donna Sutherland, Winnipeg Manitoba
As a parent, I strongly support this initiative, and feel that we are doing a disservice to our children and their future if they do not have a strong foundational understanding in math.
I miss long division, multiplication, basic addition and subtraction, even the ways to calculate area, etc. that has all changed. The old way works – that is why my kids bring their math home for me to help them. I secretly teach them ‘illegal’ math from when I was a kid!!! LOL! I have had other parents ask me to teach their kids the illegal math too. Bring back the tried and true math basics so our kids can quickly and accurately make calculations that should be so familiar and logical they are like second nature! My kids like math at home but loathe math at school. That is a problem. I don’t want them to get so frustrated with strategies that they learn to hate math. Ironically, without my ‘old-fashioned’ but rock solid basic math skills I would not even be able to help my children with their homework. The old math works, it doesn’t change, it is faster, and I need it to relearn the new math to help my kids.
As a parent of three kids in elementary school, I am glad to know about this initiative, which strongly support. I think a key issue in school education is focussing on the quality of math education, since math is a basic science (the queen of the sciences), very necessary for most activity. As Bacon said: ‘ for the things of this world cannot be made known without a knowledge of mathematics’. And I think that the key point to improve math education in schools is improving Teacher training.
These days discovery method in teaching mathematics at high school level is the latest ” hop on the bandwagon”, especially among those whose knowledge of mathematics is somewhat limited. Teaching mathematics involves a host of methods: teaching by showing examples (lecture), inductive/deductive, analytic/synthetic, drill, cooperative learning (think-pair-share), project , problem solving, and of course, heuristic (discovery and inquiry) methods. It would be naive to think that one can choose only one of these methods to imbue students with the math concepts. Also using variety of methods addresses the different learning style of students.
Hence, let’s get off the bandwagon and walk through the beautiful meadows of mathematics in a variety of ways available to us.
[Well put, Afroze. On the methodology side, you're absolutely right. I like to call the methods being currently promoted the "Atkins diet of Math instruction". You cannot remove whole "food groups of instruction" and expect the result to be healthy. In a nutshell we're calling for precisely the sort of balance you describe. Fortunately most experienced teachers have enough experience to know this, but I'm concerned about the effect this bandwagon has on teachers still in their formative stages. -- WISE Math (RC)]
Hello Carolin,
These new textbooks are not helpful becuase the approach is only discovery method. But teaching math involves more than just one approach (see my earlier comment on Feb28, 2012). It will be useful to let the authors know about the inadequacy of the new books.[Merged with previous comment. Afroze is replying to Carolin Gooding's Jan 19 comment. -- WISE Math (RC)]
The program “Math makes sense” does not make a whole lot of sense to me at all. My strength through school and university was math and I have applied these skills throughout my adult life. I hate how math is being taught now. Why change something that has been working for decades before. My 9 years old, who is bright, still use her fingers to add and doesn’t know how to tell time on a non-digital clock. They have not even been taught about money yet. Crazy! It takes her a whole page to figure out the answer to one question when adding 3 digit numbers! I can’t even fathom long division now!
[We hear you, Amberly. About your last point: that would be because long division isn't there. (That's perhaps the most obvious signal that this curriculum is off the rails, though it's only the tip of the iceberg. -- WISE Math (RC)]
Current student in the faculty of education. This is a step in the right direction for improving math education. Keep it up!
Heather Poidevin, Regina SK
Mother, business owner and teacher.
Gail Houghton, Winnipeg, MB
Mike Lepage in Winnipeg. I always excelled at math in all levels of my education. However, I am unable to understand the math homework my 9 year old brings home. It seems to lack logic to me. I believe this to be a worthy and necessary initiative.
Naomi, Yorkton, SK
This is a great initiative. Even though my son is doing quite well in math I can see where it is lacking the basics. We spend a lot of time doing math drills just because we all love math, I’m now beginning to realize that is what is helping him succeed.
Ann Dow, Vancouver, BC
Our son has always struggled in math but as he progressed through Elementary school, we became more and more concerned that he just was not getting it despite working hard every night on homework. Finally in Grade 7, we got a tutor which seems to be what one does in Vancouver but which was unheard of by us as we are originally from Ontario.
When we moved to BC, our son was 9 and in Grade 4, His teacher was brilliant. She did not teach to the book – Nelson but rather taught the “old-fashioned” way of covering the fundamentals that are needed to progress through math. She did drills for multiplication and division. In Grade 5, though his teacher was again brilliant, she taught the Nelson text which is reading based math. Our son started to really struggle. Grade 6 was the same story but as he had another great teacher, he got the support he needed. Grade 7 was another story. Again reading based but this time, his teacher was not as supportive as she could have been despite being a math expert. And so the tutor was called who is amazing but one has to wonder why we would need one. What has happened to the education system?
Grade 8, High School, the teacher recognized our son struggling and made allowances for him. He passed! Grade 9, desperation on our part as he is not passing though neither is most of his class. The teacher fails to understand that the kids are not getting it, need it repeated in a suportive way, and he needsto go slowly. They were half – way through the book by the middle of first term. This teacher is used to teaching enriched kids so our son is getting left behind and so are at least 40 other children.
Despite two tutors, one in school as a Peer tutor and one at home and working six nights a week on math, our son cannot seem to succeed. We knew something had to be done within one month of school starting but could not move our son as there was not room in other classes plus we were told that the whole Grade 9 math was in crisis. Every class had poor results.
It is very frustrating for us as parents that despite our child working hard, the system continues to say “work harder, it is your fault” rather than taking a step back and addressing the learning needs of the children. What is the hurry to learn if the children do not get it? Why are strategies not in place to encourage our children in other aspects of learning math – re- testing or math projects?
Luckily, we have a good Councillor at the school to whom we can address our concerns however this is not enough and it should not get to this point. It is not only our son, it is most of his class and the other class the teacher teaches. The math is not supposed to be hard as it is supposed to be a continuation of Grade 8. And having a teacher who cannot teach at the Grade 9 level nor understand the basic elements of learning makes it worse.
Sorry for the rant but the frustration level is very high. The interesting thing is that everyone with older children tell me to just hang in there until Grade 11 and then he can drop math. The ironic thing is that our son wants to be an Engineer!
[Hi Ann, no need to apologize. We want to hear people's frustrations, and part of our purpose is to give you a voice. And I don't regard your son's ambition to be an engineer to be at all ironic. At his age all should have an open field of options, and math education should be designed to provide a proper foundation for everyone of reasonable capacity to learn. You might appreciate John Mighton's book, The Myth of Ability, which argues that anyone without a learning disability can succeed in math, if it is properly taught. Your comment raises many important issues. One is that it illustrates well how the current WNCP curriculum, which majors so heavily on student-generated "strategies" that it places a huge onus on the teacher to guide discovery effectively, which exaggerates the effect of teachers having different dispositions and levels of training, whereas a more systematic, standardized approach is more forgiving toward teachers' individual characteristics. -- Wise Math (RC)]
I agree. My son’s biggest frustration was always having to tell how he got his answer. I just got it, he would say and was not very open to “discussing” it. A right answer is a right answer. Another area that his teacher had trouble with was estimates. The kids just wanted to tell her the correct answer and not estimate. She got frustrated and blamed the kids for their black and white perspective. I say with an estimate, one can never be wrong because it is an estimate! [Merged from later reply -- WISE Math (RC)]
I support this. Mother of two girls (age 15 and 17) Brandon, Manitoba
How on earth can math be reading based?
I’m no whiz at math but learned by rote and memorization times tables etc., over 60 years ago. I can’t imagine my grandchildren learning arithmetic any other way. Basic math skills, not hard to teach, and not hard to learn. Kids absolutely need this to be successful in their lives. As with English skills, the basics are vitally important – YES to this initiative!
There might be a quiet return to learning the basics. My daughter in grade 2 brought home some addition flashcards, with the instruction to practice every day. Meaning, of course, that we will be doing the teaching at home, but at least she will learn her math facts. Let’s hope that more teachers catch on to this revolutionary new teaching method!
Yvette Marquis, mother of 4.
Lisa, Burnaby, BC
Parent of two (ages 11 & 12).
I have been a sub teacher for a number of years and have tried to teach – and mark – this program to primary kids. Many need to have the concept explained in simpler terms. They find it hard to write in words how they got the answer, which is quite often the last question on the worksheet. Some of them say “I just gesst” or “My fren sed” or “I jest new”. I am now involved in getting my grandson in grade 4 to learn the times tables, not required in the curriculum but necessary to answer multiplication problems. Math should be math based math not reading based math! You have my support.
I have been very frustrated with the “Math Makes Sense” program in Regina, Saskatchewan for years. My kids aren’t learning the basic math skills they need, such as the times tables. We’ve been lucky to get “old school” teachers who teach traditional math skills on top of the required curriculum, otherwise I would have had to make the choice of putting them in costly additional tutoring. I try to teach them myself at home but sadly lack the skill and talent of a good teacher! Our math program here in Saskatchewan is not working and needs to change!
I completely support this initiative! I have a son in grade 8 and a daughter in grade 7. Unfortunately, this new system was introduced in my sons grade 2 year. Although he has done okay with this crazy system, he hates it! In contrast, my daughter has struggled with this program due to its many different strategies. For a system that was based on the premise of offering many different strategies, so that children that learn differently would find success, it has failed and only confused.
Happy to support an important campaign. Allen Mills, Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Sarah. Mother to two children, seven and nine.
I support this initiative to improve math skills.
Cheryl Grant, Regina SK.
I completely agree!! Let’s get something done before it is too late! I have a Grade 5 student who can’t even complete basic addition facts, let alone grasp the multiplication & division!! I don’t feel that it is up to me to have to be the evening math teacher…but right now, what other option do we have!?? For the last 2 years we have been told that they are not to memorize the math facts & now this year, that is what we are having to do to help to just understand the basics!
It’s bad enough that our kids are learning to read “by sight” and are unable to use proper spelling or grammar, but now they aren’t being taught the basics of math?!?! How will they be successful in finance or engineering or science? Math is not vague, it shouldn’t be taught that way. I’m a parent of a 3 and 5 year old. I’m preparing myself frustration – theirs and mine.
I fully support this initiative.
Kerry Meyers. Dalmeny, SK
My daughters are 6 and 4 and I am extremely scared for their futures.
I support this initiative wholeheartedly. I hope that this endeavour will raise the standard level of Mathematics for young people.
I support this initiative.
Saskatchewan
Please do something about the math program in schools! Stop complicating things and get back to the basics!
I have a younger sister in the new math program for high school. It is making math simpler by cutting content. I believe a greater emphasis needs to be put on math in primary and secondary education. I support this initiative because something needs to be done soon.
Andrew Bendor-Samuel, Winnipeg, parent of two boys (grades 7 and 10).
Director of Math & Science Tutoring and instructor of Mathematics at the University of Winnipeg.
Parents need to question what it is that their children are learning. If your child is not being taught anything then they are probably receiving excellent grades. I encourage parents to read the Government of Manitoba, Department of Education Curriculum Framework Outcomes, for K-8.
http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/cur/math/framework_k-8/index.htm
Unfortunately one needs to look for what has been omitted. One thing you might notice missing, children are not expected to be able to multiply anything beyond 2 digit by 2 digit numbers. While many parents may cringe at the idea of having to multiply 123 x 321, I’m pretty sure most could do it. Today’s children will not be shown how. Don’t get me started on division! The argument that one can use a calculator fails to take into account how these processes are used in even basic algebra. Not every child will become a scientist or an engineer, but children are being robbed of that potential by a curriculum that fails to teach the basics.
I totally support this initiative. I did not realize before the magnitude of the problem that the school kids, especially the middle school kids are having. The time is right to start the process of change in math teaching.
Murray Alexander, Adjunct Professor at Univ. of Winnipeg.
I strongly support this initiative. What is so damaging is the fear of mathematics that so many students carry into their working lives. They are missing out on so much more than just mathematics skills, without a healthy attitude towards this subject.
I support this.
I agree with all that is being written here on these baords. Please do something about this, before it’s too late for my three kids (9, 8 and 5).
‘Math makes sense’ to no-one any more….
We home-schooled for years using Abacus math and Singapore math and I felt my kids understood math conceptually, were able to do mental math, moved into long division flawlessly, understood how to solve word problems. Now, in school, they are doing work they each did years ago. Other students I see in grade 7 and 8 and high school, use calculators for their basic multiplication facts. They shouldn’t use calculators at all! Something has to change. The Math Makes Sense use of coloured tiles even in grade 9 is ridiculous, and very confusing for all.
I have been having a very similar experience to everyone else here. I almost feel like math at school is a waste of time so send them home an hour early so we can teach them the proper skills for building a strong foundation. The new system fails to start with the basics before jumping to solving questions.
I’d like to see someone who has never played/seen hockey before be told to “Get the puck in the top left corner of the net”. They are handed skates, a stick, and a puck and left in the dressing room to figure it out themselves. I can imagine the person walking the puck up to the net and placing it on the top corner. Problem solved! Wait until when they play “Hockey” with their friends.
These poor kids are going to struggle with math in later grades. Their lack of foundation will greatly hinder them from being successful compared to the kids who learned the basics and have a strong foundation to build upon.
Darren
Calgary, Alberta
I would like to join of the WISE math group.
Being a university student that has struggled with math throughout my academic life really brings to light how much K – 12 math has failed to prepare me. I hope that we can bring change so that no other university hopefuls will have to suffer in the face of math like I have.
I strongly support this initiative!
As a semi-retired math teacher who often works term positions all over the province I have seen first hand the need for this initiative.
I was very happy to see the responses to this very serious issue. Our children are being used as guinea pigs with this curriculum. My children age 14 ( grade 9) and 11 (grade 6) are so lost in math, with this “Math Makes Sense” book we are using in our school. ( I like to call it Math makes NO sense), My 14 year old wanted to try regular math in High school,so she went to summer school, but because she is lacking in her basic skills, she has to be in the adapted math again. What is with that. She wants to go to University or college and needs math to get in. This is a shame. My husband is the one that has to sit for at least 2 hours to try and help my children through this book. My daughter gets 1 or 2 questions done at school and brings the rest home so we can all be lost together :) We need to get back to the basics. Let go back to the math that everyone was able to do. So we as parents can help our children succeed.
Reply from Janine O’Hara, Saskatchewan:
Hi Donna,
Our experiences have been very similar to yours . . . spending two or more hours on math many evenings. I want to encourage you not to give up speaking out for change, and also not to give up with helping your daughter. We have felt that if we were home schooling, we wouldn’t be dealing with this mess, as we would not use a program that is so detrimental to children. Shame on the researchers, governments, and school boards who use our children as guinea pigs. Many things sound good in theory (although I can’t see how this program does), but fall apart with application. You are not alone. Hopefully together we can help bring about the change that eliminates this so very harmful program and brings back a proper, straight-forward math program. The universities have already been appalled with the lacking math skills of students prior to this program. If something isn’t done to rectify this situation for our children soon, the universities’ (and any other post-secondary institutions’) frustration and disgust will only be magnified exponentially. Although, this comes in a far second to the frustration and damaged confidence that this program is causing in our children.
Reply from Donna Harper:
Thank you so much for your reply Janine!!! I will never give up and I am so glad to have found support in this situation. I Love my girls so much and you are so right that their confidence is being damaged. Shame on them!!!
You have put it so beautifully.!! What else can we do?
I am ready to go to bat for our children!!!!!!!
Thanks again.
100 percent support!!
I am a frustrated parent trying to teach her confused 11 year old how to do things she should have learned 4 years ago in school. She was getting good grades up until this year (Grade 6) when her lack of basic skills caught up with her at test time and she couldn’t get the work done in time.
I was actually astounded as one of the school supply requirements for a grade 3 student in 2011-2012 is a calculator. Are you Serious!!! It is time to let common sense prevail. Our son was struggling to understand math under the current math curriculum and his frustration to understand the logic was obvious. It was not until shown how to do math as taught to our generation that it was literally like turning on a light bulb. His excitement, and “instant” ability to understand and now solve math equations with ease , lends to solidify the absurdity that the current curricular teachings is superior in any way. As a parent I fully support this initiative.
Yes being a immigrant from India and now Canadain Citizen I very well can see the differance in math levels. Both my daughters studied here but their math skills were minimal so discussed with teachers but with no gains and hence decided to enroll my kids for private math classes.
Nathalie Buisse, Montreal, QC.
I strongly support this initiative. The old math system works and is much more intuitive. Why make it more complicated and ultimately more discouraging for children to learn?
Parent of one boy aged 12. From helping my son with his math homework, I understand how students are frustrated with math. Time to get back to teaching the basics first and then build off those basics.
The gradual change in math instruction over the last 40 years has put us in a position where many teachers don’t even know there are basics that have to be mastered.
Melita, MB
I strongly support this initiative!
Lynn Westwood, Arborg, MB
Retired Teaching Assistant
We need to get back to a Junior High model in middle school.
Carolin, Regina, SK. I agree with this, my son is now in Grade 10, and has been struggling with this new program since it was introduced, the books provide no examples to help them figure things out. He is so confused and frustrated he now completely hates math which is sad. Time to go back to the basics, I don’t remember that many kids struggling when I went to school.
Michelle Wahl, Regina, SK
Preeti Kaur, Parent of girls aged 9 & 10, Anaylst. I agree with the initiative
Kristen Nguyen, Saskatoon, SK – Parent of three children (3, 5 & 9). I support this initiative.
Michele Schreiber
Selkirk, Manitoba
I support this initiative to keep my children on track for a solid math education.
The new math is a good way to ensure that we lose in the global economy. We need to raise global leaders that are educated well. This new math is an experiment with our children and we do not need to experiment with our childrens education.
Terra Regier, Swift Current
I have two children struggling in school right now. I fully support this innitiative!
Xi Chen, father of one boy almost school-age, math professor, Alberta
Prof. Thomas Hillen, Associate Chair of the Department of Mathematical and Statistical Sciences at the University of Alberta, member of the NSERC – Math Liaison Committee …
…. and concerned father of three children.
Let’s stop our children from being sacrificed by the Provinces of Canada and their backward way of math education. We live in Ontario, and Mr. McGuinty and the TDSB “powers that be” will be known as the institutionalizing body that sacrificed our children.
WHY IS THERE NO ACCOUNTABILITY…LET’S STOP THIS INSANITY. POWER IN NUMBERS!!
I fully support any initiative that helps Canadian students, learn more effectively.
Beverley Argent
Irricana AB
I support Wisemath.
K.Douglas
Saskatchewan
I agree with WISE.
I have a Ph.D. in Math and both taught math in college but was a senior administrator keeping track of our students progress. It is true that not every student will need to study Calculus in their life and that calculators make it unnecessary to find square roots by log tables or by the very old method that was similar to long division. In the early 70s a janitor at our college was trying to get his GED or HS grad and had to learn how to find a square root using an algorithm that may have been taught in the 40s.
I suspect that things like the discovery method of teaching math may be beneficial in some ways but not as much for math. Teachers may like it because there is little marking involved.
As the world changes math education should change. Teachers have to keep up with these changes.
I represent the largest industry-based association in Manitoba and across Canada. Manufacturers have significant concerns about the ability of new employees to grasp many of the math-based essential skills required at all levels in business. Companies are having to spend time and money training employees in basic math in order to retain them as productive people!
Ron Koslowsky
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I’m a junior accountant and as my career progresses I see how my math skills have improved simply because I have to use math in much of what I do at work.
My Grade 8er rarely gets math homework and when they do, there is none of those sheets of equations where one has to practice over and over. The textbook is full of examples but no explanations of the steps one takes to solve a problem.
Time to get the social engineering drivel out of school and get students back to old fashioned hard work – which, by the way, is proven to build life skills and self-esteem.
I support this initiative wholeheartedly. How can we expect students to grasp higher concepts if they don’t even understand the basics? It is not just math – many children have poor reading skills, which of course affects all other aspects of learning. Without a strong foundation, how can we expect positive results?
I strongly support this initiative.
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I support your initiative!
Regina, Saskatchewan
I support the initiative
Kevin Slobodian, Dalmeny,SK
support this intitiative, i have had to teach my 9 and 11 year old multiplication table they didnt know 5×5 or 3×4 simple things or division short and long. They will need it for everyday activities in life . I cant help them to study for tests because I dont understand the language or strategies.
Bring back the basics
Mother of two daughters, ages 13 and 8, who are “doing well in math”. Their marks are high, but that does not reflect their ability to “do” mathematics at a level of competency let alone mastery, because of the curriculum. They are able to explain and draw many approaches to answers, but are not being TAUGHT HOW to approach mathematical calculations numerically or agebraically. We do what we can to fight the system, but there are many who are complacent because their kids “get it” – not realizing that put to the test to actually “calculate” they would NOT “get it”. It’s essential to change the system immediately and I applaud this action. Also please consider http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org
Toronto, ON
Our kids are screwed.
If they’re still young they might have a chance.
I support this initiative!!
One only has to work as a volunteer at a food booth at the fair or arena. It is tough for young kids (mid to late teens) to grasp, anywhere near as quickly as older folks, how to add and subtract in their head. Customers are little interested in a server stopping from serving to agonize over basic math. It is because they don’t HAVE basic math. Both my girls in the mid eighties were fortunate and now very relieved, to have real math teachers.
I support this initiative.
Dana Hupe- Teacher, Saskatoon Public School Divsion and parent of a 12 year old and a 14 year old. Students are so confused by the lack of direction and grounded focus of the new math curriculum that many of them are frustrated to the point of giving up and hating math.
Reply from Janine O’Hara, Saskatchewan:
Thank-you! It is a relief to finally hear a teacher admit some of the problems of this program, as well as the impact it is having on the students! As a parent (and former teacher), it has been very frustrating to NOT be heard by teachers AND the principal, and, instead, be fed the jargon and their support of this ridiculous program. I get told to attend the meetings with the educational consultants so I can learn how to help my child with this math. I wonder what they think that we are spending our evenings doing already!!! When parents have to spend countless hours trying to unravel the mess that is being created at school in a subject area, it is rather obvious that the program being used is a miserable failure!
Joanne Robbins, Rossland BC
Fiona Cribb, Regina, Saskatchewan, parent to one grade school and one high school student
Shari Sultana, Burlington, Ontario (parent of an 11 year old and a 9 year old in the Ontario public school system)
Carolyn Ingram, Caledon, Ontario
I have three daughters all have taken Kumon math.
I agree wholeheartedly that changes to the math curriculum are needed immediately.
I support this initiative.
I am concerned about the kids whose parents cannot afford math tutoring or Kumon.
Fazal Dar, Regina
I am currently teaching economics at the University of Regina. In the past I also taught chemistry for eleven years at the University of Regina. Over the course of my career, it is truly distressing to see many of our students totally unprepared in basic mathematical skills required in introductory chemistry or economics. I fully endorse your endeavour to raise the standard of mathematics for our young people so that we can compete successfully in tomorrow’s knowledge-based economy. I wish you success in this very worthwhile project.
Christopher Poile, Saskatoon, parent to two girls (2 and 8), Business Professor at the Edwards School of Business. I’ve found two things:
1) Many 1st year university business students lack an understanding of fundamental math. Some believe that 1 + 1/3 = 2/3. Others don’t know what a slope is. Many don’t understand how to use graphs to represent data and interpret relationships. These are basic skills necessary for the business world and participation in a civic society.
2) My 8 year old is in grade 3 and the curriculum is not giving her the firm foundation she’ll need for later math: the place value system, quick and accurate addition and subtraction mastery, part whole relationships, multiplication. I don’t know what she’s doing in class, but now I’m teaching her in the mornings out of a homeschooling book. I don’t want her to end up like so many of our first year university students.
I should clarify — my daughter’s teacher is very good and cares a great deal about her students. We are extremely happy with her. But the teachers seem to be constrained by the curriculum they must follow. In the fall, the teachers met and collectively decided to send home pages of information and links to supplementary work (like online drills and worksheets). Basically, parents were asked to help their children work on the basics at home.
I strongly support this initiative and am at the beginning stages of going up against the teacher and principle – this being one of the main issues. My son is being inundated with mundane homework and asignments; yet, he struggles greatly with spelling and reading and addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. He is 9. It is affecting his confidence and self worth. I also urge you to Like this page… http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org/index.php/blog?mid=55
this is how I was led to sign this wonderful initiative! TY Nicole Dunn Burlington, ON
Roxanne Mah, Kelliher, Saskatchewan, High School Math Teacher
My daughter is just entering the education system. I want there to be a forum where kids can be taught to think critically. Math offers this discipline and “trains the Brain” for an immeasurable number of life skills we require.
Winnipeg, MB
Glad to see this movement is growing support. Our current and future students deserve a “quality” math education. This reminds me of the issues that surfaced many years ago with the band wagon to bring in Whole Language in elementary schools. That wagon had its wheels fall off and phonics are now back.
We support this initiative.
Kellely & Debbie Ewert, Winnipeg, MB
Bobbi Collins, Calgary, AB
J’enseigne les mathématiques et peux vous dire que 1 étudiant sur 2 en première année n’est pas capable de donner le résultat correct pour 8 + 2/3 – (5 + 1/6), à choix multiples, les réponses potentielles étant 2 + 1/2, 2 + 2/3, 3 + 1/6, 3 + 1/3 et 3 + 1/2. (Je teste depuis quelques années dans le cours de calcul différentiel; on imagine ce que seraient les résultats dans un cours de rattrapage.)
C’est un scandale!
To complete the “Mathematics teaching in …” series, as supplied by my son:
7. Mathematics teaching in 2020:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this
cart of firewood is $80.00. The profit is $20.00. If you can read, choose
the answer that indicates the profit. If you do this correctly you will be
rewarded with the $20.00.
(a) $20.00 (b) $20.00 (c) $20.00 (d) $20.00 (e) $20.00
Brian Blackbeard
Humboldt, Sask.
We have to get back to the basic math skills, It seems today that the kids coming out of school do not have the abilithy to think through problems.
DeWinton, Alberta
Yes, please fix the math program, and then, reading and writing. There has been a big problem with that since the 1960′s. I have had to teach my kids basic math and reading and writing since then. Why are we spending so much on public education, when parents have to to teach their kids at home anyway, or hire tutors?
Saskatchewan
How pleased I was to find this organization striving for change with current math education. I echo the comments of all who have posted previously. As a mother of a 12 year old who struggles with the basic concepts needed for her future, I am challenged to ‘make sense’ of the ‘new’ program. Thank you for taking this on!
Lets get back to the basics. I manage an adult school where students have math 23, 33 etc and are going back to upgrade because they can not multiply or divide.
Shelley, Innisfail, AB
We support this change back to they math has been taught for years.
Grande Prairie, AB
I support this initiative.
Further suggestions moved to “Other important issues” page.
I’m good with numbers because I had a good education in the UK. Let Canadian kids become good with numbers.
Stephen Ottridge Vancouver
Grandfather of twelve grandchildren who need to grow up knowing how to make math calculations. It is embarrassing to watch young people at the cash register not knowing simple mathematics.
Associate Professor of Philosophy, University of Regina: I support this initiative. Thank you, members of WISE Math.
Nanaimo, BC
Of course I support tougher math programs. I do not want to suffer because some twit couldn’t do math. We all pay for stupidity, but it has become too expensive in the modern world.
I can not agree more the students are missing the basics. Our son is struggling because of it. I have being saying this since he was in grade 3 he is now in grade 9.
Marla Dan, Toronto, On
I support your initiative. In a recent Issue of Forbes magazine the CEO of a manufacturer of large compressors said that good math skills were mandatory to get an assembly line job in today’s world. The US is reporting a shortage of trades people Some employers are prepared to teach unskilled workers but many of them are unqualified for training! What do they teach in schools except “social justice”.
Medicine Hat Alberta
I absolutely support this initiative!
I strongly support this initiative.
Please get back to teaching basic math. It is very important for our cildren’s future.
Thank you for taking this initiative, I support it.
Ehsan
Lloydminster, Sk
As parent and a software developer I can’t express how important this is. As a child I was educated during the early years of “new math” – the result of which required catching up in University. If I had not had supportive parents and professors I would not be doing what I am today. I am so glad this initiative is started since I am determined to personally see that my daughter has a firm handle on math – regardless of her schooling – so she enters University and the workforce with an adequate mathematical mental toolkit. This initiative is a step in the right direction.
Saskatchewan
I support what is being said.
Further comments/suggestions moved to “Other important issues” page.
I support this initiative.
I support this initiative
Saskatchewan
I support.
First, the English curriculum dropped spelling and grammar to mark the student on “content”. In the result, first year University students can’t even write a term paper that is readable.
Now math has dropped learning the basics so that the students can solve math problems by “strategies”? Our so-called Education “experts” have to be replaced and the whole education system sent back to the basics. Young store clerks now can’t make change for a $20 bill on a $11.50 purchase without a calculator. By the time we finished Grade 9 Math, we could not only do that in our head but also calculate a 10% discount.
I agree with this 100%…our kids are our future…lets get them on the right foot.
I support this initiative.
Sheryl, Brampton, ON
Ontario
As an elementary teacher, I am encouraged to give the students calculators.
I totally agree that the Math Education that chIldren are receiving is awful! Kids need to know how to do basic math skills in order to function in society. We are doing a huge disservice to the students of this generation. It is time to stand up and make a change back to the old way of teaching Math.
Shirley
Winnipeg MB
Shalla O’Keefe
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Angela
Winnipeg Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba
It is a great idea to share issues, concerns, and ideas for math education.
Robert Barrigan, Medicine Hat, Alberta
Engineering Technologist and Father of 2
I very much support the WISE initiative.
I did post-graduate training as a mathematician and taught mathematics at the post-secondary level. My area of interest was modern algebra and I soon realized that unless one was very familiar with the properties of the integers, rational and real number systems, one could not fully appreciate the abstraction of their properties. Luckily, when I went to school, we were drilled in the number tables (I’ve never understood why drills are good for football players, but bad for school kids).
It’s interesting to note that change is also being demanded in the UK
You’ll also be interested to know, Derek, that Calculators are also being banned in early grades in the UK. Seems they’ve had their fill of these “reforms” too and are looking for something more solid.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
As a retired math teacher who tutors grade 11 and 12 students I see the flaws in the system everyday !! Students who are tring to do functions and calculus who cannot simplify fractions or do simple algorithms!! It is a horror show when they enter math courses in first year university!! The curriculum has been dumbed down and the grades have been inflated so that the ministry is not embarrassed by the statistics !!
Danielle Bourgeois, Swift Current, SK
Mike MacNeil, Nova Scotia
This initiative has given a voice to my 10 year old daughter’s road of strife! She is learning challenged and my husband & I have fought with the education system for 4 years just to have her properly tested. This math program has no benefit to children who cannot determine what strategy to use for basic addition; let alone basic life skills. I was told today that she does not meet the criteria for extra assistance. I alone must provide the extra practice needed to succeed. Tell me how a teacher can go on strike for more money but a parent has NO voice or method to make a stand when propper education is not being provided. To pull our child out of the public education system would be a drastic measure and one that would only cause her setbacks I’m sure. However, I have seriously contemplated it. I taught modified and adapted math classes to grades 7, 8, & 9 students 10 years ago. After just a few months of basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division mad minutes, those students were able to progress to more complicated math studies than their initial testing predicted they would achieve.
I fully support this initiative!
Janessa Ljunggren Swift Current, Saskatchewan
Hi Janessa. Your story echoes so many others we’re hearing. Your daughter is lucky to have you pulling for her. Children need structured learning, particularly those with special needs. You might look into supplementation, since you have some classroom experience. We aren’t selling anything here, and there are numerous choices for you including the tutoring centers but we do think highly of JUMP Math, which is put out by a nonprofit organization that is a registered charity. You may want to look into their parent modules or, if you’ve more time to devote, their teacher’s guides.
–WISE Math (R. Craigen)
Calgary, Alberta
I was so pleased to find this website – I thought I was alone in my wish to see reform of the math program in Canada. I taught math to Grade 6 students in the International School in Riyadh many years ago and was shocked by the number of students in my class that had been passed from one year to the next without ever having a grasp of math principles. Now I am teaching at a vocational school in Calgary that requires Grade 10 math to be admitted to the program. I am dismayed by the level of math skills in many of these students and feel that the Canadian school system has failed these students miserably. This website and mission statement are right on. What more can I do to help?
Hi Doone. Just signing up and telling others is a start; we are encouraged with our successes so far, and we’ll likely write about specifics soon enough, but now is not the time. We are imitating the successful approach taken to initiate the current reforms in the U.S. At some point we may have things for the general WISE Math JOINers to participate in and will communicate about it then, but for now we’re consumed with organizational tasks, interviews and requests to speak to officials, all signs we’re getting somewhere.
–WISE Math (R. Craigen)
I saw this coming in the early 90s. I am a retired engineer who was hiring and supervising young graduates back then. I noticed then that many aspects of learning had slipped badly from my day. Many applicants, even the ones with high math/science marks were somehow strangely poor in basic problem solving concepts. They were better at written expression than most of the more recent grads I have seen, but still not very good. Maybe this is the fruit of the social promotion tree?
Signed.
I am a mother of a 19 month old, so not yet of school age, but he will be one day. I hope that by the time he starts, the education system will have come to its senses. I was extremely strong in math both in high school and university and strongly believe in kids being taught the basic algorithms, time tables, and problem-solving skills that we were taught “in my day” (just over ten years ago!) Not everyone excelled at it- but at least they were exposed to what I believe are the basic skills you need to make it through life. Everyone should be able to add, subtract, multiply and divide just as they should be able to read. Basic financial skills stem from the most fundamental mathematical principles- and last I checked, everyone needed to balance their chequebook.
Good luck with your initiative. I look forward to reading more about what we can do as parents to help change the system. Our children deserve better.
Stephanie Moores, Ottawa, ON
Victoria, BC
We heartily support this initiative.
Please reintroduce learning math times tables when children are in kindergarten – they find it a piece of cake and love it at that age and is a powerful foundation when they start manipulating numbers. It’s no different than learning the letters of the alphabet as a basis for learning to read.
I teach secondary math and take the calculators away in grade 9 and go back to the basics so that they can move forward.
Would anybody please explain to me how you can do ANY math beyond grade 3 w/o knowing addition, subtraction, multiplication or division by rote?
Apparently the amazing success our civilization has experienced over the past 200+ years of education has been an abysmal failure! (sarcasm)
Andrea Kabeary, business owner
We send our 5 year old son to Montessori school for kindergarten and we are afraid to send him back to the public system because of the exploratory math that is being taught. We have been told that he will have to attend Kumon in addition to his regular school to learn any basic math skills in the Catholic system. My sisters kids are in the Catholic system in Saskatoon and are being told by teachers that only 10% of the students will go to University so the Math has to be more geared for the other 90%( who will not be attending post secondary.) Doesn’t everyone deserve to learn basic Math skills.The deputy minster of Education in Saskatchewan could not find one practical appilcation (for anyone) for front end rounding. It is an absolute joke. No wonder all the grad students for Math and Science programs at university are from China and India.
Saskatoon,SK
Gail McKenzie, Luseland, Saskatchewan. My eldest grandchild is in Kindergarten. His mother is incredible at math. He will learn math come hell or high water but doesn’t need the confusion that the school system currently employs in the math curriculum. I fear for the kids whose parents aren’t mathematically inclined. I support this initiative.
Winnipeg, MB
As a parent of two young school children I strongly support this initiative.
Ryan Shannon, Beaumont, AB
After watching students in a Social Statistics (200-level) class at the University of Alberta struggle with adding fractions and the professor making excuses for the “calculator generation,” I wholeheartedly agree with any measure to improve mathematics education in this country. The fact that a 20-year old student can be accepted to and progress in an undergraduate program at a major university without basic math skills is absolutely shameful.
I’m a relatively new high school teacher who is very saddened by the lack of knowledge displayed in our incoming students, but also in the lack of knowledge of some of our high school graduates after they have completed their required math courses.
I think this is amazing! If there’s been an “strategy” that we’ve needed, it’s this! Canadian parents, and educators coming together to go back to the old roots of how math was taught! I know a lot of children are struggling in math. I have a child in grade 7 who has been struggling since grade 4. Every year I’m promised she is receiving help, every year she gets farther behind, and every year even though she fails math, she is pushed through. The schools are like a train, if you have a child struggling, falling behind, it doesn’t matter that train just keeps on going with no stops!! I’ve finally went to the board of education, my daughter had some testing done, and they confirmed her math skills were still at the grade 3-4 level!! She has no clue how to do subtraction, multiplication or division! The foundations of the rest to come for math!
She doesn’t have a learning disability, every other subject she was tested at a grade 9 level!
It shouldn’t be questioned why MORE ABD MORE parents are deciding to homeschool they’re children!!
Mark Kwiecinsi, Ottawa, Engineer, M.Sc in Physics
I can’t help thinking that the “new math” goes along with so many other things in that philosophy is taking over reality. Math is factual but “educators” want to make their mark somehow, but since math at the level one would take in public school is pretty straightforward (or should be), the educators have to go somewhere else to be “creative.” The same thing is going on in music and art where one has to be different to be special.
I fully support this initiative. Angela Wellman, Ottawa, ON
It saddens me to hear and see how mathematics curriculums have deteriorated over the years. I’m an engineer and I know from my career how important it is to have a solid grounding in mathematics. The public education system in Alberta needs a major shift back to the basics.
Doretta Wilson, Society for Quality Education, Toronto, Ontario
Keep up the great work!
I am a parent of twin boys (age 8-grade 3) and a publisher of a bilingual magazine for children. I strongly support this initiative.
I belong to a group of volunteer retirees who, by invitation from teachers in our school district, have the opportunity to visit many separate and public K-8 schools.
The objective of the group is to give the children a practical slant on the different science subjects being taught with the hope the experience will increase the chance they will elect scientific studies in secondary and post secondary enducation.
To a person, we all make the same observation. The vast majority of the children in our Canadian schools lack the most basic math skills needed to function in the ever shrinking job market.
This is an excellent way for retirees to get involved. It has also been suggested that out-of-school math “club” format teaching run by seniors could have an impact on a lot of kids. I do recommend that others like you consider this kind of activity if their hearts are in it.
–WISE Math (R. craigen)
Great initiative! Thank you
My daughter is only in grade 2 but she is struggling with understanding the basics on math. I have been very frustrated, and really only told by her teacher that I need to work with her at home. Which of course I am doing but, what is she being taught?
Mary Catherine Kropinski, Burnaby BC, math professor and mother of two (ages 10 and 13).
Concerned parent of two kids, 11 and 14.
I’m starting to feel like movements to the new math were in a large part to satisfy demands put on the public system to improve scores. There’s enough wiggle room in the interpretation of a student’s success, that in general, score have gone up – even as they’ve ended up with a poorer understanding of the content.
Marc LaFoy, Toronto
I wish my teachers taught us grammar in school because I am suffering because it now.
Additionally, everyone needs basic math skills–not just engineers and mathematicians.
I have gotten into huge arguments with my daughters’ teachers over this. One of them said they don’t ask the kids to memorize the times-tables because some of them have a bad memory and then they can “feel bad about themselves” if they don’t learn them fast or properly. I have forced my children to learn them to no avail, because the teacher contradicts what I say and at school they are allowed to use a calculator, look at the charts for results, or just wait for the teacher to write the answer on the board. This has got to stop, it’s unacceptable. I don’t want my children to be functional ignorants when they grow up!
I sincerely sympathize as a mother (who wants my children to have strong math skills) and am also frustrated as a teacher who has these new curriculums thrown at me whether I agree with the methodology or not – and then is provided with no training on how to teach these new methodologies. We are required by the provincial government to teach the curriculum (whether we agree or not) so our hands are tied. I hate the use of calculators in elementary classrooms, but have been told that I must allow their use – AND I have had parental backlash from both sides – those for not permitting students to use them and those for allowing them to do so. It is a lose-lose situation for the teachers.
I applaud your initiative. I have been frustrated for years the lack of reinforcement of the basic math skills that are second nature to me now. My boys are too old to benefit from any changes now, but hopefully we can save the next generation (of parents and children) from the frustrations we’ve experienced.
I’m a retired industrial engineer, who volunteers with a group of other local retired engineers within the Lambton-Kent School system. We have been frustrated by todays students, even in G8 being unable to multiply by 2, let alone anything more complicated. Teachers are asked to teach math and science upto G8, when their own education level in these subjects did not go past G10! Unbelieveable!
I received this from a friend in Mexico City and considered it represents the situation in primary and secondary school here in Uxbridge, Ontario:
Last week I bought a product for $158.00. I gave the cashier $200.00 and looked in my wallet for $8.00 to avoid getting more change back. The cashier took the money and looked at the register, apparently not knowing what to do. I tried to explain to her that she owes me $50.00 in return, but she was not convinced and called the manager for help. She was almost crying while the manager tried to explain to her, but she did not get it.
Why am I telling you this?
Because I thought about the evolution in teaching that took place from 1950 to today’s conditions in the public as well as private schools, as much in the academic sector as well as in the treating of pupils (now the smart asses are not only non-manageable but also off limits!)
See how the changes were in the area of mathematics:
1. Mathematics teaching in 1950:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is equal to 4/5th of the selling price. What is the profit?
2. Mathematics teaching in 1970:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is equal to 80% of the selling price. What is the profit?
3. Mathematics teaching in 1980:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is $80.00. What is the profit?
4. Mathematics teaching in 1990:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is $80.00.
Choose the correct answer that indicates the profit
( ) $ 20.00 ( ) $40.00 ( ) $60.00 ( ) $80.00 ( ) $100.00
5. Mathematics teaching in 2000:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is $80.00.
The profit is $ 20.00.
Is this correct?
( ) Yes ( ) No
6. Mathematics teaching in 2010:
A logger sells a cart of firewood for $100.00. The production cost for this cart of firewood is $80.00.
If you can read mark an X in the $20.00 that represent the profit
( ) $ 20.00 ( ) $40.00 ( ) $60.00 ( ) $80.00 ( ) $100.00
Don’t laugh, it’s serious!!!
If you are one of those whom the teacher threw erasers and pieces of chalk at, or pulled your ears and got at least a smack with the ruler, send this mail on because nothing happened to you: you are not traumatized, they didn’t drag you to the psychologist and surely you are a prepared person, educated, respectful….
I just happened to be “one of them” and totally agree! (yes, the good old pencil on the knuckles or the ruler) I find it very difficult to help my daughter these days with her math(Gr.5) and wonder “where the heck is she going to need that” and “what ever happend to the stuff we learned” and yes, I turned out just fine. I remember memorizing my times table and how much fun that was which is something that is not done today as stated above by Martha in Richmond Hill, ON.
Parent of two boys 11 and 8.
It is too late for my soon ( grade 9 now) but we are fortunate to discover Kumon few yars ago. I’m an engineer who received the education in estern Europe and I was shocked by math level in school grades. Unfortunately is not only math…
I am extremely concered about the lack of basic math being taught. Thank-you for getting the message out through this website. This has to change!
I first became concerned at a intro to Kindergarten meeting that focused a great deal on the “new” way of teaching math. For example we were instructed not to teach our children how to count by rote, but rather to have an understanding of amounts. Or to not expect our children to learn arithmetic as we did. Now I see I’ve observed just the tip of the iceberg.
Please bring real math back to our schools! Problem solving skills are important in mathematics but let’s not forget that so are actual numbers. Children need to have a frim grasp of at least basica math to be succesful as adults.
I totally agree to this important initiative for Canadians. Are they teaching how to add and subtract fractional numbers on paper in elementary schools? I think basic math skills teach basic skills to think logically, not just to memorize.
Ph. D in Chemistry
Megan Wegert, Winnipeg
Stacey Fujimoto, Coquitlam BC Kids need to learn proper basic math so that they have a solid basis to understand the more difficult math concepts later on in school.
Henry Tyndorf, Principal,Mississauga, Ontario
Janice Vian, Ph.D., Registered Psychologist, Brooks, Alberta
I was a high school English teacher before I changed professions into psychology. Most of the school-related help I gave my two daughters, now 22 and 27, was in math, and I thoroughly deplore the long descent of the math curriculum to its current level of dysfunctionality. I fully support the goals of this website.
I strongly support this initiative. I am very saddened that the teaching of basic math skills – none of which seemed to hurt me while I was going through school – have been removed from school curriculum. These are important skills for all facets of life; our children are at a disadvantage without them.
Karen J. Kieley,
Ottawa, Ontario
Bring Back Math Basics! There is nothing more critical to concrete learners than having a concrete, simple, and comprehensible formula/algorithm that can be rehearsed before moving-on to more abstract mathematical applications. Repetition and rehearsal is at the core of music, sports, reading, writing, speaking, and arithmetic; to name a few. I have diligently taught math basics to our children and tried to undo the damage caused by a very obtuse, impractical, and ineffective curriculum; a curriculum which has eroded basic math knowledge among gifted students and struggling students alike. It is time for us to take action and demand a proper education for our children!
Linda Wang, Toronto, mother with 2 boys (ages 6 and 4).
The problem is huge; North America has a huge cultural problem with scholarship, and math in particular. Anyone who hasn’t read John Allen Paulos’s “Innumeracy” would find it of interest.
I have taught at Colleges and Universities in the States and Canada, and find the Canadian system to be worse off with this ridiculous obsession with “marks,” but then a complete lack of understanding that they are obtained by mastering content. To confound this with educational “strategies” that have been abandoned elsewhere and a “math is hard” attitude makes it truly a Gordian knot. Curriculum changing is easy. Culture changing seems harder. Good luck – you have my support.
Phil Mendelsohn, parent of 3, Landmark MB
As a high school teacher of physics, chemistry and general science, I can say that 99% of the issues that students have in science stems from a lack of basic math skills. Students enter Grade 9 and even 10 without understanding basic algebraic formula manipulation. Many have never seen scientific notation, and therefore cannot grasp the basic functioning of the metric system (an absolute basic skill for any science student).
The current math curricula are no longer in sync with science curricula and therefore Grade 9 and 10 science teachers must dedicate weeks or more to improving basic math before we can even begin to teach science topics such as kinematics or chemistry. The way that we are going, we are shutting the door to science and math careers for our kids. Math is the language of science, and we are turning out an illiterate generation.
It is difficult to teach math. Students don’t necessarily “like” it; unfortunately the current trend toward making all learning fun (projects, plays, essays, sculpting, field trips and movies) have replaced the self discipline, hard work and ability to persevere of past generations. Students are assessed on their ability create some magical math diorama, or create a transcendent analysis of the tides… without the basic skills to do so. This is as crazy as expecting someone to write a great novel without knowing the alphabet.
When they enter the higher level math and science It leads to students misconceptions, a feeling that can’t do math, and that they are stupid. This way of doing things handicaps our kids.
Giving up on the tried and true way of teaching math is giving up on our kids.
Some very good points, Greg, especially with respect to what I call the “common lexicon” of mathematical ideas and procedures, which is critical for science and engineering; it is precisely these things that the tinkerers are discarding for “pedagogical” reasons, with little thought to the consequences.
–WISE Math (R. Craigen)
I totally support this initiative. I teach statistics Introductory Psychology students. Many of my students do not have the basic skills to recognize when they’ve made a mistake with their calculators (e.g. adding when they were supposed to multiply), let alone how to do the basics. Innumeracy is as bad as illiteracy!
Stephanie Hevenor, Laboratory Instructor, Department of Psychology, Nipissing University, North Bay, Ontario
I strongly agree with this initiative. I would add that this problem is not limited to western Canada. I am from Victoria, BC, but currently live in Nova Scotia. My daughter’s math education is so limited here that I am forced to augment it during the evenings, in what should be her free time.
I support this initiative.
Steve Hayward, Toronto
I certainly support this initiative. I am a mother of two boys (7 and 10) and an engineer. I’m not happy with what has been taken out of the curriculum (the old methods are still needed and times tables should be memorized). Math (along with language arts) is such an important subject – it is the foundation of many other subjects. It needs to be taught properly and effectively!
Buffalo Narrows, Saskatchewan
Instructor, Northlands College
Yes, finally.
Basic numeracy is sadly lacking in our society and today’s educators are doing their students a great disservice by denying them the basic mathematical skills that will be needed for success in both their careers and life in general. One needs to look no further than the widespread financial illiteracy that pervades the general public to see evidence of the gradual erosion of accountability that has occurred in public education over the past few decades.
Maxx-Phillippe Hollott, Toronto, civil servant and father of two children (aged 5 & 8). My children attend a math tutoring program because I know personally as a parent whose own math skills were only mediocre, the degree to which my own career potential was limited. Sciences, economics and engineering were unobtainable due to my own inabilities to do more than algebra. I never took calculus in high school – because I didn’t have to. Moreover, I believe that tutoring programs like the Spirit of Math and Kumon help children to develop strong sense of personal achievement and perseverance. My son is two grades ahead of his classmates in mathematics – and while he is a strong student, it is mostly because my wife and I stress the importance of mathematics (and language) and pushing himself to be attempt work beyond what is expected of him by the public school system. We expect the same of our daughter.
A great story, Maxx. The commitment of folks like you to a solid education for next generation, one child at a time, is our best hope for the future.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
I strongly support this initiative!
This is an excellent start for necessary changes.
Bob King
Milton, Ontario
Monica Ilie
Department of Mathematical Sciences, Lakehead University, Thunder Bay, Ontario
I strongly support this initiative.
I simply cannot see how any child in this day and age can be expected to move into high school, let alone post-secondary institutions and ultimately the job market without being able to add, subtract, multiply or divide. In grade 4, we had daily 11:45 am mental arithmetic drills; those who “got it right” got to go home early. It worked. Early-age rote learning may grate on today’s educational bureaucrats but I see no alternative for satisfactory outcomes later in life.
Good for you for attempting at last to correct this mindless form of teaching.
I agree! Basic facts are the “foundation”, and conceptual learning builds on the basic facts! Mother (2003, 2006)
You go to th grocery store – children cant even make change
You have my support
I support this initiative.
Chengjun Sun, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I am a retired teacher. My fields of expertise are chemistry, physics, and mathematics. I have done quite a lot of tutoring, usually in mathematics. Most of the young people that come to me for chemistry and physics were severely lacking in mathematics concepts and relied far too much on their calculators. I have even tutored students who were going through the education program to become teachers who used calculators to multiply by one or ten or even zero. Negative numbers really confused them. These were students who managed to survive the former system. I cannot visualize a system that does not teach the basic facts and algorithims that are needed.
This situation calls to mind a similar program many years ago. The teaching of phonics as a means of teaching students to read was banned. Any teacher taught using this technique was disciplined. Now you can buy a phonics program anywhere in any format you want.
The same thing is going to happen here. Some smart businessmen will see the deficiency in the mathematics curriculum and will be grinding out books and computer programs to fill in that lack and make millions doing it. Shame on our Educational System.
You’re right, Ellen. And WISE Math exists for this very reason, to ensure that this happens here as you predict. Very good alternative curricula already exist, so solutions are in place, if schools are ready to take them.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
I am a retired Drilling Engineer and I am very concerned over what I see my grand-kids doing in elementary school. There is an overwhelming lack of practice doing the basic operations of arithmetic. It is maddening that a simple operation such as generating the correct change seems to be beyond the mathematical abilities of young Canadians today. A Harvard professor Niall Ferguson stated in a recent interview on BNN that North American math and science standards are falling fast behind the Chinese. Changes need to be made or Canada will fail to compete on a global market. I fully support this movement.
“North American math and science standards are falling fast behind the Chinese” – this is not correct – because we are already so behind already that “falling fast behind” is not possible at this time.
Hi Andras. I’m taking this as a “Join”, though it’s not completely clear from your comment that this was your intention. I suppose how this is articulated is a matter of perspective. It is certainly the case that China has been well ahead of us in the PISA assessment since 2003 (and earlier), China-Shanghai being well ahead of the pack, and China-Hong Kong significantly above us. Similarly for Korea. Tests like PISA are limited but these results are quite consistent with direct experience and what we know of the immigrant community and, for example, expectations of students at post-secondary levels in these countries, which would be impossibly high in a North American context. These things are informative, but I caution against jumping to conclusions too readily; the issue is a complex one. As for whether we are “falling behind”, we do fear that current changes in curriculum and methodology are having and will continue to have a further deleterious effect. This is why we started WISE Math.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
Andras szigeti, Port Moody, BC
Math education in BC does not encourage or develop thinking. Students are taught simple algorithms to solve simple exercises – they do not have a basic understanding of their topic or the ability to contemplate about it.
I added this to your previous comment to preserve our count. We agree that this is a problem, and don’t advocate teaching algorithms without understanding. But with WNCP what you’re going to see is a swing to teaching “understanding” without standard algorithms (at all!), which we regard as just as misguided. As mathematicians, understanding is a critical issue for us; there is a false dichotomy between the two, which we hope to eliminate. Unless I hear otherwise I’ll continue to treat your comment as a “join”, but you may wish to verify that you are in agreement with our Mission Statement. Feel free to email us to discuss if you wish clarification.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
Math teacher and parent of three boys, aged 16, 14, and 10.
I am frustrated about the new curriculum and the way it is delivered. Homework is almost non-existent, with students having no basic skills and lacking critical thinking skills. About a third of teachers who teach math in B.C. have other than math background which is unacceptable to me. If we want our kids to learn math well, we need specialized teachers to teach it. And we in B.C. and in Canada in general, pride ourselves of having one of the best educational systems in the world. How ridiculous! Most of our newcomer immigrant kids are placed in a higher grade (or skip a grade) because they are far ahead of Canadian kids, how can that be if our education system is so good?
Hi Zsofia,
I am in Vancouver, B.C., and can see your point of view. I think part of the issue, especially at the elementary level, is that the teachers are expected to be generalists, not specialists…while at the high school level, the teachers usually have a at least a Bachelor’s degree in their teaching field, especially if teaching the senior grades.
I fully support this initiative. My kids are 9 and 6 and I have taken over teaching them math at home. It was an uphill battle with my daughter when she was in grade 1 in 2007 to get her to accept my teachings. Like others have stated, she complained that it wasn’t how her teacher taught her at school. We survived that fight and now she wishes that I made her memorize the multiplication tables much earlier. She is telling her 6 year old brother “you will learn this and it will help you!” I think that it is very sad that we need to take the time after school at home to do all the drills that I used to do in school. I truly hope that we can make this stand and force a change as our children, their futures and the future of Canada depend on it! Banning calculators in elementary will be a great start, but drills are needed if ‘math fluency’ is to be achieved.
Hi Nathalie. It may interest you that in England exactly such a ban has recently been introduced. And the National Mathematics Advisory Panel has been able to roll back (or move forward beyond) the more egregious problems of the “new new math” in the U.S. (see our summary of their report). There is hope.
– WISE Math (R. Craigen)
I study engineering at the U of S. It as apparent that students from Canada struggle to overcome the curve of difficulty more than our peers from Asia, India and the Middle East. I also do volunteer tutoring for high school math occasionally. It is disappointing seeing a grade 11 student grab the calculator to compute basic multiplication.
Please overhaul our math curriculum before I have children in the school system!
I am a post-secondary Instructor who deals with your kids every day. It saddens me to see how weak their skills are in math, in logic, in critical thinking. The future for our children is bleak if we do not correct this situation. And, I am sorry to have to say this to all of those who think it is possible to learn these skills by osmosis, no one gets good at anything without lots and lots of practice … studying, discipline, repetition, and repeated “work-outs” are the essentials to success in any field, including the intellectual ones.
Daryn Woods, Parent of 3 young children, Electronics Technologist
I support the initiative, my daughter is a Grade 9 student taking Pre-cal in Winnipeg Manitoba. She is falling short on number skills. Something needs to change in our education system particularly at the elementary school level. I agree with many others that have suggested banning calculator use in elementary school may be a step in the right direction.
Saskatchewan
The new math program is so frustrating. It makes no sense to me and I don’t think it makes much sense to the teachers who have to teach it!!! When its time to do the math homework its just not fun or exciting. We both walk away feeling confused and exhausted. We 100% support this initiative.
Thanks, I agree and support.
I noticed the lack of proper math instruction 10 years ago. When I raised the issue, I was taken into the school office and shown all the “research” of books on the shelves, and reassured that what they were teaching the |”new math” was the right way to go. It was not. I saw the math abilities slip farther and farther behind in the class. I felt like I was in school all over again myself as I taught my child every evening “the old way” only for her to be told differently at school. There was no text book. No insistence to memorize the times tables. No long division. One night in particular several of my family members, uni graduates, tried to solve one of her grade 5 problems to be told the next day it was impossible to do, and was assigned mistakenly!! Why can’t the math be taught the old way like we all learned it…and have a text book instead of photocopied crap!! I am so frustrated and angry with the curriculum and the lack of progress which is taking years…, resulting in children who are behind two or more grades worth of knowledge in math!! Then they can’t make it to advanced math, which is a requirement for university level academia. It’s a crying shame for Canada, for our academic prowess in the sciences and our ability to compete with other countries academically.
I agree and support this initiative.
Joanne
Inglis Manitoba
Alexander Hogeveen Rutter, Winnipeg, MB, engineer
Winnipeg, Manitoba
At times it appears that Math is used to differentiate students rather than enable them. -T
Vladimir Troitsky, Edmonton, Alberta
parent, math professor
I agree that school math education in Western Canada is in rather poor state. The main problems indeed seem to be deficiencies in math curriculum as well as math teachers lacking proper training in the subject.
I fully support the initiative. I have two children age 10 and 6. My youngest is struggling with math and is being tutored as well as taught at home to address the lack of basic math in schools. With my oldest had the same issues and we drilled in the multiplication tables and when the understanding wasn’t there on how to solve problems I taught him how I was taught. Now he is at the top of the class for math and spelling. And this only happened because teaching the basic fundamentals is important and a necessary stepping stone in learning something new. I have nothing against introducing new skills as long as the basic skills are not ignored. With the help of the tutoring school and home practices, my youngest is on the right path to enjoy math and spelling and not be scared when these subjects come up in school. I also agree that teachers need to have these basics credentials before stepping into the classroom, a confident teachers creates confident students.
Cathy McMillan, Port Moody, BC
The language based curriculum is so hard on many of the students. Many LD children could be very strong in Math if they were given more operational math. Not only are dyslexic children suffering through their language based courses, but their math too because the curriculum is so language based.
[I've merged your comments to preserve our count on this page, Cathy. We'd be interested in hearing more about this issue. You can email us or post about it on the "issues" page. --WISE Math (R. Craigen)]
Mathematics made me a better person, so I fully support this initiative.
I teach college-prep math and physics, and I’m amazed at how many of my students don’t know their times tables; how they use their calculators for 3×7 etc. There’s almost nothing that slows them down in their problem-solving like this, other than lousy study skills. And a small one in algebra: they’re taught synthetic division for simple polynomials, but not the long division (of numbers or of polynomials) on which that mostly-useless short cut is based. What were they thinking? In the south Fraser region, we have over 300,000 adults with inadequate literacy and numeracy, yet only 50,000 high school dropouts – so 250,000 high school grads with inadequate literacy and numeracy! Something’s wrong here.
A very good point about synthetic division. In fact, there are only two learning outcomes in WNCP that mention synthetic division and long division of polynomials, and none at all that mention long division of numbers. One has to ask how these can be understood without that prior context/skill. Further, the two mentions arise in “achievement indicators”, which are defined as follows:
(emphasis WNCP, not mine). The outcome in question is
Clearly a teacher needn’t cover either topic and, in the limited context described, there is good reason to avoid this level of sophistication. Yet I judge this to be the most advanced outcome in the curriculum pertaining to polynomials.
— WISE MATH (R. Craigen)
Parent to a 13 year old and 10 year old.
Burnaby, British Columbia
Thanks for starting this initiative – my kids call the program, “Math Makes NO SENSE”, which pretty much sums it up. I am astounded by the number of parents I speak to, whose children are struggling with the Math Makes Sense program, and many are having to hire tutors to ensure their kids have an adequate grasp of the material. This should not be the norm it should be the exception – I strongly support a change to the current math curriculum.
While each child does construct his/her understanding of mathematics, to use constructivist tenets to structure math teaching and instruction suggests a loss of pedagogical direction. There is no need for each child to re-invent mathematics, it puts too much pressure on the child. There is enough pressure with having to learn it, when instruction and support is provided by an able teacher.
Heather Ansari
I have taught and tutored Math at all levels for the last 30 years, at first in Italy and then in Canada. Over the years I have witnessed a constant decrease in math skills for the students entering high school and university. The level of math skills is becoming more and more alarming.
A house well built needs a strong foundation, and elementary education must provide strong basic skills to our kids.
Presently, our kids are taught these important skills by teachers who do not have a strong foundation in mathematics. There is no substitute to the operations algorithms, which must be taught, explained, reinforced and learned early. The reform we need is simply to have math taught, since the early grades, from qualified and trained math teachers rather than from a “generic” teacher who generally has no significant math background. We also need to ban calculators from grade 1 to grade 8.
Thank God for this initiative. Our kids are young but already we are seeing the impact of this useless math program. We are spending countless hours teaching our kids math to undo what this system has done. As parents we are supposed to re-enforce what their teachers are teaching not substitute entirely for a broken system. We have brilliant teachers who are not allowed to teach because of the math makes sense program and the bureaucracy that is pushing it. Math is not a new concept, it has been taught for centuries and needs no modification. Bring back the “old” methods of teaching kids math and get rid of “nobody left behind” while you’re at it. Both are a disservice to our youth. We strongly support this initiative!
Hi,
I have 4 children, 2 are finished with public school, 2 are still in highschool. We live in a rural area north of Winnipeg. I am an Civil Tech instructor at Red River College in Winnipeg.
I have been my children’s tutor in math and science over the years, because I am familiar with the work. At times I wondered how the other families did it who did not have the background.
One of my children were slower at the math, and even though he took pre-calc in grade 10, he was strongly discouraged by the teacher from taking it in grade 11 because his marks were not A’s & B’s.
My other child is gifted in math and science. When I asked our school division to consider accelerated programing, they were not receptive. When I asked that my son be progressed into higher grade math and science, they discouraged us and felt they would be giving him a privelege that others would not have.
So it appears the current thinking is to keep the kids in a contained area. If they struggle, or, if they excel, just keep going at one speed with the curriculum. There is no room to fly, and there is no room to catch up.
My observation is that math requires a learn-at-your-own pace environment. Where students can actually learn at their pace, and feel the success as they go ; where those that want to fly , can; and those that need more time, have it.
I have volunteered in our local elementary school, and children want to learn the math material. As a volunteer, they look to you for help. The majority can learn the material. They need to take it at their own pace.
I wish these discussions had occured years ago when my older son was in high school. Without gr12 precalc, he was not able to move into many occupations that he had dreamed of.
My younger son? He is now taking an IB curriculum in the city, that will hopefully offer the challenge he seeks.
I strongly support this initiative!!! This Math Makes Sense is a huge source of frustration for our family as well as many other families that I know. My daughter who is in her 3rd year of university has always excelled in math. She is unable to help her younger brother with grade 8 math as it is totally incomprehensible to her. How unfortunate that parents and siblings can’t help these children with all of these abstract questions. Will these kids ever use this in real life situations? One thing is for certain. Basic math facts are used every single day of our lives.
We use mental calculations constantly.
Why is it that when the pendulum swings it goes to such extremes? A balance between the 2 would be more beneficial.
I really believe that it is just a matter of time(just like the whole language approach),before the government and educators realize that this is just another mistake.
The question I would like to see addressed is ,”What happens to these kids that missed the boat?” According to many high school teachers and professors, these kids will not succeed in calculus and will not be ready for University math.
This whole program needs dissecting before it’s too late.
Time is of the essence.
Anita Kehoe
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
The current emphasis on constructivism in North American math education – wherein children are expected to construct mathematical knowledge for themselves in a social milieu where the teacher neither lectures nor guides the discussion – is highly damaging. Evolutionary psychologist Steven Pinker says that in evolutionary terms the human mind is not automatically predisposed to mathematical conceptualization, and reminds us that “mathematics is ruthlessly cumulative” and must therefore be taught in a progressive, linear fashion. “Evolutionary psychology has implications for pedagogy which are particularly clear in the teaching of mathematics. American children are among the worst performers in the industrialized world on tests of mathematical achievement. They are not born dunces; the problem is that the educational establishment is ignorant of evolution” (Pinker, How the Mind Works, 1997, p. 341).
Best of luck. Kristine Douaud, Missery, France
Daryl Shaver
Oyen, Alberta
I support this initiative.
I’m a mathematician, with 4 daughters in K-8.Very worried about the appalling level at which everything (and math in particular) is taught/done in elementary school. I really hope this can be changed for the good of our kids.
I support this initiative
Parent, substitute teacher, private tutor. Nice to hear parents talking about curriculum. WISE Math will become a powerful voice in helping our kids.
As an educator (chemistry professor) and as a parent (who has spent many evenings helping my daughters with elementary school math), I STRONGLY support this initiative.
Having taught various first-year university courses in math – both in Manitoba and BC – I can only agree that a great many students enter university VERY poorly equipped in basic arithmetic. Many of the students I taught were planning to go into education; however, sadly, a lot of them will simply not be prepared to do even a decent job teaching math to children, because they, themselves, completely lack basic understanding of the material to be taught. It would seem fairly obvious that, unless this problem is addressed very soon (by raising the level of ambition in school math curricula), a few years down the road the general public will be oblivious to basic math skills. Does that seem a solid foundation for a society that depends so highly on scientific and technological development? Hardly. This initiative is most certainly needed!
My daughter’s math marks were in the high 90′s in high school but she is in her first year of Engineering at the U of S and is just barley scraping by with her university math. Is the current high school math really preparing kids for post secondary college? I find it very concerning that your marks can drop so much.
My son was a total whiz in math, 2 grades ahead all the time until this new curriculum came in. He calls it “Math Doesn’t Make Sense” as the text book entitled “Math Makes Sense”. I totally agree with this initiative.
I strongly support this initiative.
Strongly support this initiative; having found math easy through my schooling and carrying forward to a career in accounting I am baffled that I cannot seem to help my 13 year old daughter with her math homework using this new method. I am afraid that she is going to miss out on opportunities and shy away from anything number related because she does not feel she has a grasp on the basic concepts (which at some times seems greek to me).
If nothing is done soon, Math Ed in Canada will become the laughing stock of European and Asian countries, as well as a top contender for first part in the 21st-century Theatre of the Absurd. I support this initiative wholeheartedly.
Patrick Douaud, PhD
Faculty of Education
Regina SK
I was sure happy to read something was finally being done to this math program! I have been saying for five years (since my youngest son was in grade one) that kids need to be taught basic math facts. We spend hours in our home learning basic math facts because they won’t teach them in school.
The reason that they taught basic math facts in schools for so many years is because it works!
I have been teaching math internationally and in Canada for over 30 years. The level of math ability of students in many Western nations is appalling. Students do not know how to manipulate fractions on which the laws of Algebra are generalized. Thus, they end up with deficits in logic, tactics and strategies which are needed to maneuver through life. My goal would be to get back to basics by limiting the use of calculators until high school.
I strongly support this initiative!
!
Getting back to basic math with strategies that work is critical in developing useful talents in all aspects of life. This is a great initiative.
I strongly support this initiative.
B. Melnechenko, Regina, SK
Kindergarten teacher and Parent (Ages 6, 10 and 11) As a teacher I really like the Math Makes Sense for Kindergarten, it is easy for children and the teacher however, I HATE this program as a parent, I can’t even help my children in grade 5 and 6 because I don’t know how to do it, and as much as I try, they always say “That’s not how we did it at school”. My children do not know basic adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing skills in Grade 5 and 6 that I knew by grade 4, yet they are expected to know it somehow, I think by “Magic”. I do not have the time to teach basic math every day at home as well as do their math homework or afford to put them in programs outside of school for additional support. I think this “Math Makes Sense” program is for children that are very strong at math and would like a challenge. My oldest child who has ADD is struggling more and more every year, there are too many ways to do basic math in this program.
A child that struggles should not have to divide 25 different ways, basic long division is all that is needed! It is time for the basics, save the students and the teachers!
Fernando Szechtman
Associate Professor
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Regina
I strongly support this initiative.
I would like to thank everyone who signed up their support so far. Please rest assured that
once we reach a reasonable level of public support, we will do our best to try to
achieve the changes required so that our children can flourish in the school academic
environment to the full of their potential.
This will be an extremely difficult task, and it is not unreasonable to expect strong opposition.
In order to attain even a moderate level of success, we will require the support of parents,
teachers, faculty members, and the public in general. Please continue to be aware of this
important issue. If possible, talk to your relatives, friends, neighbors about our website.
If you would like to participate in other ways, please let us know by private email.
We have already noted all those who volunteered in this respect (thank you!) and we hope to contact you in the near future.
We have seen our son struggle with mathematics compared to his older sister. She had the opportunity to learn math the ‘old’ way whereas he did not. We have since enrolled both children in a math program at a significant financial cost to ‘fill in the gaps’ in their math education. I feel for the families who cannot afford to hire tutors or are unable to help their children. These kids will continue to struggle in their academic careers. Shame on the Canadian Government for failing these children. They will have no one to blame but themselves when they see the consequences of their decisions in the future workforce.
I strongly support this initiative.
I strongly support this.
I fully support this initiative as I can truly see the damages of the new curriculum on my younger daughter.
This is very important issue, a great initiative.
As a retired educator, I’m appalled with the present state of math in our schools. To hear that my granchildren struggle with simple multiplication problems and spend far too long on math homework they do not understand, is ridiculous. I also hear that math is not getting the necessary time or prominence in the classroom.
As a concerned Math 7-9 teacher, I support this initiative.
Adrienne Fainman, Winnipeg, Honours B.Sc in Mathematics
I strongly support this initiative!
Teachers from the “old school” who ruled strictly by the “my way or the highway” justification are perhaps more to be blamed for the present math malaise than basic principles such as rote learning. If I as an actor wish to wow an audience, I don’t make up my words but MEMORIZE the words put down by the writer. AFTER the words are drilled into my memory, I proceed to find ways of making the part a bit more vital or interesting, but there is no show without the memory drill. I’m good for nothing until I’ve got my lines down.
I have been struggling to help not only my children, but the children of our neighbors! I have had to go and google the topics in the “Math Make Sense” textbook because none of us understand what “strategy” the children are being taught. I find this whole math program very disturbing. My daughter in Grade 7 was doing her math tonight and when the question asked it’s usual, “What strategy did you use to solve the problem?”, she answered with, I didn’t use one, I just did it! I liked that answer.
I ended up in engineering because I loved that math was straight forward – no exception to the rules – unlike English where I struggled because there was no clear cut way to approach it. I was trained in the “Mac the Rat” days and, because of that experimental reading program, had to be taught at home by my mother so I could learn to read properly. Both of us feel that the math program is another “Mac the Rat” experiment and will end when the program is pulled because the technique is flawed.
My children do not like math. They are frustrated by the touchy feely questions like, “how did you get that answer?” – “what strategy did you use” and so on. I have been very actively working against this program. I am so excited to find a place where I can work with a larger group to help our teachers end this program. The frustration I am hearing from the ones that will talk openly about the program is that the program does not build on the concepts being taught but teachs in discreet sections. For young students, we need to continually build on what they have learned and then introduce a new concept and then build on that concept and then introduce another concept but never abandon what has been learned previously. Math has a certain amount of memorization but it also has a solid logical format. I understand that some students don’t get that but there are ways to reach those students without introducing this “how would you like to solve that question” philosophy. Yes, I deal in math everyday of my life. I love math but I am so sad to see so many students walking away from it because they hate the ambiguity. I get that. I would have hated that too.
Just let me know what I can do to help. I am ready to put my energy into changing this program!
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Hi Kathryn, just a quick note: We’re pleased to see joiners like you who want to “get involved”, and we hope over time to roll out suggestions for action and opportunities to work together. At the moment we’re bound up with just getting the site started (we’re all full-time professors), so please have patience. In the meantime watch as we develop the site and we’ll try to keep everyone up to date on our own activities on behalf of WISE Math. For example, the other night four of us made a presentation to a large local School District, and we felt some real progress happened. There are good folks who are paying attention, and just having such broad support is making a big difference already. Be encouraged. – JUMP Math (R. Craigen)
Thanks so much for the reply. I am encouraged to hear you feel people are listening. Saskatchewan has launched a provincial initiative (Math Education Review – CBC website Dec 19, 2011 – http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/12/19/sk-math-education-review.html). I am trying to get a chance to speak to the two MLAs regarding this program. I appreciate so much your support and effort on this very important topic. I believe your initiative had a lot to do with the Saskatchewan Review. I also think that a lot more teachers are feeling empowered to speak out about how they really feel about Math Makes Sense.
Thank you again for your response,
Kathryn A Black, Regina, SK
It is essential to form a solid foundation in basic math skills to build more advanced problem solving skills later.
I too am upset with the curriculum. As an engineer with three children, it pains me to see the struggles they have with the basics because the schools aren’t teaching them. And I am struggling with recent university graduates who still struggle with math but somehow got through engineering school….
Strong support for this initiative.
My 8 yr. old loves math and my 10 yr. old has been losing interest in it. It seems that there has been a lack of critical thinking challenges in my older daughter’s past couple of years of classroom experiences and I have lots of “catch-up” to do with her.
My own fault for not noticing sooner.
They are both bright, capable kids and with extra guidance, I’m sure will be fine.
I strongly support this initiative after spending long evenings with my own daughters trying to help them understand their “math” homework.
Mathematician.
As a former student that excelled in math, I can say this program is both a waste of time and too confusing for children who are weaker in math. Some of the concepts take me 5-10 minutes to understand after having completed all high school maths except calculus.
I’ll join in the voices expressing concern over this “new math”. The real world requires critical thinkers who can seek out the correct answer… not just the one that “feels right”.
I support this initiative as a parent of three children with very different ways of learning. Why are so many of us turning to tutors for basics that should be taught in school? I often have trouble deciphering the math problems coming home with my middle schooler. How can we support and encourage them when expectations are so unclear and totally impractical? Math should not be subject to fads it is a staple – essential to everyday life.
I support this initiative.
Please help our children before it is too late. We’ve turned to Kumon tutoring to help our daughter with grade 5 math. What happens to the children whose parents can’t afford private tutors?
High school graduates who are not proficient in math will be unable to pass business administration, commerce, engineering, computer science or any other university or technical school program that require sound knowledge of mathematics. Such students will be severely disadvantaged since the post high school programs that they will qualify for will be very limited and they will find it difficult to obtain meaningful employment.
Good luck with this important work. I hope tihngs are better when my kids start school.
Britt Hall, Associate Professor, Department of Biology, University of Regina
I support this Initiative.
I further suggest that math teachers be paid more than other teachers so that more university students will choose math as a major or do a M.Sc. in math and go to teach in high schools.
Guoxiang Chi
Department of Geology
University of Regina
Mike McEwen, Saskatoon
I’ve had years of experience with University students proving themselves unable to even make basic change from a $5 without a cash register/calculator to do the adding for them. And now having listened to John Gormley and this Front End Estimation nonsense – .
Great initiative.
Chris Rvachew, Calgary, Alberta
Finishing off grade 12 this year in the private system because of the public systems way of teaching math. Absolutley support this petition because I’ve seen first hand what this nonsense is doing to the kids in this city including my own siblings
I support this.
The new math is ridiculous and is not preparing our kids for University!!! I support this petition 100%!!!
I have a Masters degree in Electrical Engineering and I believe math is taking a back seat in our education system. Math and Finance are cornerstones of our society and need to be thoroughly understood by our young ones. Understanding Shakespeare won’t help you get a job, understanding fractions and compound interest will.
A concerned grandfather!
Basic Math is essential. Holistic math is utter garbage.
Our children need math skills.
I am a parent of a 9 year old child who loves school and does exceptionally well in her classes. Although she does well in math, she has developed extreme anxiety regarding this subject (to the point of stomach aches requiring prescription medication) as she knows the correct answers as they should be mathematically, but is never quite sure what the teacher is needing for an answer – the best example of this is front end estimation…of which its usefullness is lost to me, if I may say so. How is front end estimation going to help her balance a cheque book when she is older? Yikes. I knew it was going to be a bad math program when folks came around in a few summers ago to sell parents an encyclepedic sized “handbook” for the Math Makes Sense progam and remarked that if we wanted to be able to help our kids in math we would require it… The “Math makes Sense” program is a blight on our educational system, and I fear for my child’s future. Is it too hard for a program that teaches children to memorize times tables so that she isn’t lining up soup cans at the grocery store when she’s older so that she can figure out how many she can buy with $5.00? Enough of my rant: I will do whatever it takes to help get rid of this ridiculous program and bring back real mathematics. You can absolutely contact me if you wish.
As a student at the U of R in Secondary Education with a Math minor, the new math curriculum scares me.
I strongly support this initiative.
Rob Rathwell
Calgary, AB
Math is the cornerstone for any job that a person gets out of high school. I will support this
Richard Boehnke, Coldstream, BC. Parent of two boys, Grade 12 and Grade 9. These guys are going to have to work in trades, as they are woefully unprepared for university. The elementary school system seemed to be pre-occupied on preventing bullying and feeling good, not on education.
I am a petroleum geoscientist and PhD researcher. I specialised in basin modeling and petroleum systems simulation. I also do teach maths and its application on a part time basis. I can’t wait to see precise steps taken to improve the standard of maths in our schools. This is a good initiative.
I strongly support this initiative. With all the emphasis on improving literacy, we seem to have all but abandoned numeracy. I am a father of four, and I am appalled at the current math curriculum, which is frustrating parents, teachers, and students alike. Whoever dreamed up `discovery math`should be sent to detention (if only it still existed)!
We support this initiative.
H. Georg Schreckenbach, Associate Professor, Department of Chemistry, University of Manitoba
This has my full support. I’m from Texas, but I hope that the movement can serve as an example for your brethren in the states!
Thomas J. Faulkenberry, Ph. D.
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Texas A&M University – Commerce
Sally Ito, writer and Paul Dyck, English professor, Winnipeg. We are parents of two children (14) and (10). One child has struggled with math and we have had him with tutors from the early elementary grades. The other is good at math and in order for her to continue her enjoyment of it, we have put her in extra-curricular math programs. Something in the system is not addressing either of my children’s needs in math.
I support this initiative.
I support this initiative, the basic math skills of children today is appalling!
I support this.
The new math program has such abstract concepts for the models that we spend most of our time trying to figure out these models that my daughter will never use in the real world. The end result is that she is confused, not enlightened.
As a principal and manager of a chemical testing laboratory I fully support this initiative.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to find university and college graduates alike that are capable of doing the simple arithmatic that is required in analytical testing and research. I firmly believe that these individuals’ mathematical skills were compromised long before they entered post secondary education, largely because our educational system does not value knowledgeable educators and does not have the minimal standards that it should have.
As a tutor of math and science for more than 50 students over the course of over 10 years I have witnessed appalling errors caused by those adults that have been entrusted to guide, mentor and teach our children. I remember a teacher that worked out the solution that the chemical energy of 30 000 protein bars is required to provide enough potential energy to lift an average man from the base of Mount Everest to the peak…and a middle school teacher that arrived at two sets of solutions for a triangle, one by using the sine law, the other solution by using the cosine law, either solution was “acceptable”!
This initiative has been a long time coming. It is disgraceful that the Alberta government has recently eliminated the written portion of the grade 12 math diploma exam. IMO this change happened without adequate consultation and without adequate feedback. This initiative may be one important step toward the requisite long term thinking that our governments and decision makers have apparently lost but will be imperative for our society’s success and prosperity.
Joseph J. Williams, Department of Mathematics, U of M.
I have been told by many students starting out at the U of M that they have a lot of trouble with adding fractions, and the reason they have trouble is that they haven’t learnt how to multiply integers!
I am pleased to support this initiative.
I am an ex elementary school teacher who was driven to distraction when the new math curriculum came out in (approx) 1997. Having been educated in England, I found the curriculum easy to understand, but far too heavy in content. It also lacked emphasis on basic matriculation, which has always been crucial. Sad to say, 70-90% of the teachers were unable to understand many of the concepts and I had to explain the next step to take far too often. The problem solving aspects of the curriculum in the higher grades were a disaster, and my husband and I had to teach the teacher the night before the class was taught. “How do you know this stuff?” was a common question. This is no way to teach math, which should be an interesting and easy subject, the rules always being true, and patterns easy to learn. Please make every effort to change the current lamentable situation.
I support this initiative.
Vaclav Linek, Mathematics professor at Univ. of Winnipeg.
I fully support this initiative. The basics of math need to be solid. Once that foundation is laid down-and set, then you can play with different approaches to find the best one that fits the student. I have not personally came across this new concept with math, but I continue to teach my 2nd grader math at home. I compare math and science curriculum across different Canadian provinces (SK curriculum is not bad), a few top states in the US, and from the country I come from- India. In other countries, 2nd graders will have known multiplication tables till 12, be able to do double digit multiplication, short and long division… I worry for my kid that she will be lacking in basic skills when the time comes, and think as a parent it is MY responsibility to make sure she is has done her best to compete with kids from all over the world -not just locally.
Chair, Mathematics Department
Coordinator Math/Stats Help Centre
Bishop’s University
Go WISE Math, go!
I am glad to see I am not alone.
I stongly support this initiative.
I am a math instructor at the UofW and UofM, and I support this initiative.
Glad to see so many people recognizing this important problem.
I support this initiative.
Just a parent who is concerned about the lack proper math education.
I support this initiative.
Nikolay Kolev, Physics Dept., University of Regina.
Teacher of hundreds of students. Father of two, 5th and 7th grade. We need more and better math at schools.
398 is not 300…..ever….
Shouldn’t this method be used for the kids who are really struggling with math and as a supplemental learning tool rather than a primary one? We’re making sure our son is learning the basic math facts at home although he should be learning long division etc. at school in my opinion.
As an educator seeing children failing to succeed I think this is great!
Retired professor of mathematics, University of Manitoba
Delighted to have this opportunity.
I am a grandfather and I support this.
I taught statistics to psychology graduate students this fall. 12/14 told me they did not know what a logarithm was.
So critical in so many ways.
I support this initiative.
Jackie Rice, Lethbridge Alberta
I strongly support this initiative. It’s time to get back to the time-tested basics .
Trying to understand mathematics bereft of numeracy skills is like trying to
understand English literature bereft of vocabulary.
Trying to use mathematics without sufficient practice is like trying to carry out
a conversation in French while looking up every word in a dictionary.
I strongly support the WISE math.
Taehan Bae, a professor in Actuarial Science, Mathematics and Statistics, University of Regina, SK.
Tina Buckingham, Winnipeg, MB
I strongly support this initiative.
Jordan Veale
Winnipeg, Educational Assistant, Medical Radiologic Technology program, Allied Health Sciences
parent and science professor
This issue is very serious and critical to the future of any society. It is good to see that there are people who are pushing this to the forefront. Having worked with students across the nation for over 25 years, I have seen a dramatic decrease in math skills in students. The abilities of the students have not decreased – they just simply are not learning as much math as they used to. This is particularly true with the students I have worked with in Manitoba. They are suffering. CEO, Spirit of Math Schools.
As somebody who deals with high school graduates at the university, I fully support the initiative to improve math education at all levels. The average level of knowledge of mathematical concepts by the 2nd and 3rd year students is far below the requirements for proper learning of the fast changing technologies. This forces us spend much time on reviewing basic concepts and ultimately leads to a students having learned less when they graduate.
Dr. Irwin Lipnowski
Department of Economics
University of Manitoba
I strongly support the initiative to remedy the innumeracy that plagues our youth, beginning with a fundamental change in the math instruction that is currently practiced in our elementary schools.
Computer Science Prof.
Andrew Isaacs, P.Eng. (Electrical).
How sad it is when a father who’s an engineer, and a brother who excelled at math find the questions in the grade seven and eight textbook incomprehensible and/or simply ridiculous. Giving students various confusing ways to look at, and solve problems just lead to more confusion, not greater understanding. I think the purpose of school (and as a former educator, I thorougly believe this) is to teach students . . . we have had to spend hours upon hours teaching math at home because of this program. Added to that purpose of teaching students, is to teach students to be able to function in the ‘real’ world. The methods by which they want students to approach the various math problems have no applicability to, nor would they be used in, the ‘real’ world. I am more than happy to sign my name to a petition to bring back the former, and more realistic math program. As well, I would be happy to lend a hand in any way I can to this cause. Please feel free to contact me.
I support this initiative, I’m extremly happy that some people are thinking out of the box! I want a better education for my children with plenty of learning opportunities and with not limits to their minds. The math curriculum is very basic and needs to be re-evaluated immediatly.
Dae-Yeon Suh, biochemistry professor, Regina
Must solve the curriculum disconnect so kids have a better chance of success.
I support the WISE Math.
I support this initiative.
Reading, writing, arithmetic: we can’t assume high school graduates can do any of these
things.
Educator, Instructional Designer, and parent of 2 children in the elementary system (who both appear to be doing well in math). I support increasing the manditory # of math courses for in-service teachers. I also strongly support the finding of the US president’s panel that no one method (teacher or student-centred) is always best for teaching mathematics.
I absolutely endorse this project. Our children, and our teachers need to know and understand the need to be properly grounded in math skills, a universal standard must be set for all levels of math education.
Now is the time!
Soroosh Yazdani, math prof. at University of Lethbridge
I support WISE math. Our children need a better education.
I think this is an important initiative
I support the idea of more investigation into this issue. Math is too important for us to be taking a chance on a new learning approach that is unproven. It really doesn’t appear to be working. Parents I know are very frustrated.
Mati Dubrovinsky, Winnipeg, Manitoba – Economics professor.
Professor of Math, U of Manitoba
I support this initiative.
I am a mathematics professor teaching first year math courses at the University of Lethbridge. I know it first hand how important it is to support WISE Math. It is time to do something about the changes that have had catastrophic impact on our High-School graduates.
We strongly support you.Thank you
Brock Cordes, University of Manitoba
(see comment under “Other important issues”)
I support this WISE math initiative.
I am very disappointed with the math being taught at school. As a parent, I want my children to be taught a high standard of education, not just enough “to get by” in life. I want them to be able to go into society, after they graduate, and be confident that they have been well trained and ready for whatever job possibilities arise.
Darja Kalajdzievska, University of Manitoba, Department of Mathematics.
Teacher and M.Ed student
I strongly support this initiative: having a solid understanding of mathematics as well as possessing good math skills enables today’s students to be tomorrow’s leaders. Bravo to all of you at WISE Math!
I support this initiative.
I agree. Todays young people are deficient even
in simple math.
Throughout K-12 many people considered me the best mental math student in my grade and attributed it to being naturally talented at math. However I attribute it more to practicing basic arithmetic a lot at home, using my imagination to make math fun. It seems many kids/people today think even basic arithmetic is mystical and don’t understand how 6+2 = 5+3.
B.Sc. in Mathematics & Statistics (University of Manitoba)
from Starbuck, Manitoba
T. Shirtliff, Starbuck MB
Math professor, University of Manitoba
Hate to admit our kids do not even know the basics and do not know how to memorize.
C. Antenbring, Winnipeg MB
Please get rid of this program.
Though I’m one of the partners of WISE Math I’ll officially sign in now. I was on an Australia trip when we rolled this out.
I sat on a plane coming back beside a Winnipegger who’s a professional in the field of biomedical technology. When I explained what changes are happening in the curriculum I got the same response I always get from scientists, technologists and professionals: astonishment that our leaders in education could be so misguided. He had quite a number of words of his own, and was remarkably aware of the issues. But so, I’m finding, are professionals of all stripes.
At my daughter’s soccer game tonight I got chatting with a parent about this. The subject clearly resonates in the general public. We got so caught up in the subject we missed an important play. So we asked a parent on the other team who explained that our team had scored. Then she said, “But I’ve been listening in on your conversation with interest. You see, I’m a grade 7 teacher … ” and she had a very similar story to many others to whom we’ve talked, who have been teaching long enough to recognize the political forces that push true reform onto the back burner while excesses, pet pedagogical theories and fads swing the curriculum back and forth between extremes.
I’m a bit shocked that everywhere I turn people are eager to discuss this subject with me. Who would have thought that Math Education would one day be the hot topic for casual conversation in Winnipeg social circles!
But I’m learning that this is everyone’s issue; it does not belong behind closed doors among a small educational elite, where the WNCP conversation has taken place until now. There is a remarkable amount of consensus about it, once the facts are known, across the post-secondary educational world, among parents and many (I won’t say all) public school teachers.
After all, the things we’re saying are pretty straightforward. Common-sense things like “Skills and understanding are not antithetical; they provide necessary scaffolding for each other”; “Drilling doesn’t ‘kill’ anything except weakness in the skill being drilled”; “If a student moves on to tasks requiring high-level skills before having mastered prior skill levels, they will not succeed”; “Standard algorithms are called that because they are ‘standard’, and leaving them out just impoverishes our students”, and “If teachers have a hard time teaching the basic procedures with understanding, the solution is not to remove that material from the curriculum — it is to improve the way we train and equip teachers so that they are better prepared for this important task.” In the end, the things we’re asking are not rocket science; they’re simple common sense, and the most important stakeholders appear to already understand them.
I am a mother to two children (5 and 10) and am in full support of Wise Math’s efforts to change the math curriculum currently being taught in Winnipeg schools. My husband (a university physics professor) and I are both appalled at the lack of focus on basic arithmetic at the elementary school level. The idea that math should first be taught conceptually or with ‘strategies’ and that algorithms and basic arithmetic should come later is ludicrous. They should, at a minimum, be taught alongside each other, not one in place of the other. My daughter once tried to subtract 129 from 161 using the current strategies method, and after much diagramming, came up with the answer ’48′! After we immediately instructed her to abandon that method and subtract those numbers using the stacking/borrowing method we learned in school, not only did she get the correct answer of 32, she did it in MUCH less time than the method currently used in school and it all made SENSE to her. Unfortunately, her teacher quickly admonished her for it by saying that this is not how we do math any longer and she needed to use the methods currently approved (which, of course, we told our daughter to ignore)! Please abandon this convoluted math curriculum and introduce something that will produce math-literate students!!!
Good day. I just read this post and my heart goes out to you, as we have had this exact same situation happen in our household. Keep up teaching your kids actual math! Hopefully someone will realize through this wisemath initiative just how ridiculous the current math program is.
Krista Reimer, Winnipeg, MB
Ex teacher who has seen this problem coming down the road for a long, long time. We need to get our curriculum back to basics and get rid of these airy fairy ideas. When you have your basic math understanding mastered along with a solid foundation of facts and knowledge, THEN you can start to experiment with ideas and possibilities. Let’s get back to reading, ‘ritin, and ‘rithmetic!
Laura Lamont, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Grade 7 teacher, interested in changing the way we teach math.
Physics Professor, Univ of Winnipeg
As a parent, I strongly support this initiative.
From Austin, Manitoba
Lets give our children the education they deserve. Go back to the old style of teaching math!!!
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I support this initiative, parent.
David Peterson
B.Sc. Mathematics Student
University of Northern British Columbia
One obvious lack of math skills in the public is the popularity of the puzzle Sudoku. Years ago, when it first started to become popular, it was touted “no math required.” Essentially, it is a simple process of finding the square hole to place the square peg, etc. (or any other 1 of 9 unique symbols). This is in opposition to Kakuro (where you have to use addition to find the correct square), or Ken-Ken, where you have to use either addiition, subtraction, multiplication, or division, as the cage requires, to complete. The latter two puzzles are not that common.
As Len Bennett pointed out, proper use of a calculator is not being supported. I am aware of a young adult that had to do the calculation of 5% interest on $600 over 6 months. The response was $200, and defended it because a calculator was used! Told to recalculate, came back 10 minutes later claiming $100. Personally, if you cann’t calculate the figure of $15 in under 10 seconds with your mind only, it is proof you do not understand simple math. Under 5, you are good.
It is past time to get back to good old fashioned basics
Carla Dyck Winnipeg Manitoba
Jody Reimer, M.Sc student in mathematical biology (Oxford University, UK), B.A. in mathematics (University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, MB).
I wholeheartedly support this initiative! I have tutored too many high school students who have arrived in their final year obviously floundering, since they have never mastered simple multiplication and long division.
I support a stronger Math initiative in Canadian schools.
- Matthew Moncek, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Chris Bidinosti, physics professor, Winnipeg
I wholeheartedly support this initiative.
Building confidence in students comes from truly comprehending the concepts they are studying. Comprehension of math in this case needs well trained teachers who comprehend what the students need. It is logical that when you are confident you will more likely continue to study in that area. After seventeen years teaching in the public, Montessori, and supportive learning environments I would conclude there is a dire need for revision to the teacher learning requirements and the content and method in which students are taught. It has been through studying the Montessori Method of education that I gained my greatest comprehension and confidence in math. My experience has been with Pre kindergarten through to grade ten level math both in the classroom and in support environments. Hooray for your initiative!
Jiri Sichler, math professor.
Marie Sichler, P.Eng.
I strongly support this initiative.
Iian Smythe, Ph.D. student in mathematics at (Cornell University, Ithaca, NY), B.Sc. in mathematics (University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, MB).
I am definitely on board with any initiative to change the math program back to the old style of learning. I have two sons taking Math Makes Sense and they are both having problems because it does not make sense to them. I was appalled to find out my grade 6 son doesn’t know his times tables or understand how to do simple long division. These are things I learned in grade 3.
My other son is in grade 10 and was on the principal’s honour roll last year and is now on the verge of failing his grade 10 math. He is having problems understanding the work but on an IQ test has scored as having a well above average IQ. So if he is having problems how are the rest of the students in his class doing?
Math is like most things in life you learn through repetition and lots of practice. There is something wrong with a system where a child uses a calculator to multiply 5 times 6 and the 6 key either sticks or he accidentally hit it a second time and insists the correct answer is 330 because the calculator says so.
Winnipeg, MB
Dale Audette.
I am a upper level university student, and the idea that math instruction is now based on kids trying to “discover” how to do the math, rather than being truly EDUCATED, is ridiculous. I sincerely hope that the curriculum returns to traditional methods of education before I have children and they are subjected to this. I was well educated in a public school setting, and I am confident that our teachers can return to this excellence if a change in the curriculum is completed.
Thank you.
Heather Maahs
I hold two degrees from University. I had an interest in math in my youth and was educated in the basic methods that this group is looking to return to and it served me very well. When my own children began to bring math home from school I found the methodology to be very confusing and could not actually help them. It seemed to be very convoluted. So they struggled through it on their own. In High School, my son was forced to take the ‘new math”, involving calculus, something I was only exposed to in University. He failed the class. The school would not divulge how many students were having difficulty with the class but suddenly the students in the second semester of Grade 10 did not have to take this class anymore. Meanwhile, my son has a fail mark on his record. Not only that, he feels now that he cannot do math! Something so basic to life in this country! I would willingly sign a petition to get our country back on track with appropriate math education for our young people.
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I’m a math teacher at the high school level. I am frustrated when I see students coming into high school who cannot multiply 4×5 or find 3 – 5 without a calculator and their parents tell me they have always had A averages in middle school.
I wish more parents would contact their school boards and make noise at the provincial level where the decisions are being made because this new curriculum was forced upon teachers to teach, often citing research from the states to prove its effectiveness. Why are we following the American example, when they fare much worse then we do in mathematics and reading?
Let’s get back to the basics!!
Spencer Giffin, PhD student (physics), University of Regina
I’ve TA’ed for first year math courses and have seen how utterly reliant many students are on calculators. Things I’ve seen from first year university students fresh out of high school are:
“How are we supposed to multiply 1/3 by 3 without using a calculator?”,
having to explain that 12/13 and 1/2 are different fractions,
telling students in quizzes that they need to do calculations by hand (eg. 13 x 13) and being told “I don’t know how!” and the like.
I am a teacher and I would like to add that such an initiative also needs to be put in place for reading . If I tried to tell you about the abysmal, futile “Language Arts” programs (along with the wide-eyed teachers that support them) that I have encountered throughout my career, it would take me the better part of a month.
Agreed!
Moose Jaw, SK
What was wrong with the math we grew up learning? Who does this new program benefit? My grade 8 son is barely passing math and I am afraid what will happen next year in high school. Go back to the basics! Kids do not even know the basic multiplication tables as it is “unimportant” in this new curriculum. Why are we setting all kids up for failure. Even the strong students are confused and doing poorly.
Kristin Murdoch
Karissa Lingelbach
It is about time that an initiative like this took place. A few years ago, while living in Calgary, I was asked by the lady who lived in the condo across from us, if I could help the son with his math. Her son was in grade 12 and if he did not pass his math class he was obviously not going to graduate. I was more than willing to help. What I was not prepared for was the fact that her son, and from the sounds of it, most of the students in his math class, did not know how to rationally deal with math problems. He could break things down in to the numbers he needed to punch into his calculator but that was about it. After working with him for 3 weeks he went from a 35 overall average to a passing grade of 58 with a high 70′s mark on his final. I am not a math teacher and I do not profess to be one. I am a computer programmer by trade and someone whose favorite class was math. If I can teach someone to properly deal with the concepts then the people who are trained to do this type of work can … SO LET THEM!
I know this comment is going to raise the ire of a lot of teachers out there, but if you are so adamant to have the curriculum changed so that it best benefits the students then why not make this a reason for going on strike instead of it always having to do with money. Maybe then the powers that be will take notice and finally see just how wrong they are.
I agree with all of the comments calling the new math an “experiment”. We are letting educational theorists, with no experience in or knowledge of what’s actually required in the “real” world, make decisions for children who are going to grow up and struggle in that “real” world as a result. Math forms the basis of so many professions and careers and is important in the daily tasks of everyone. Let’s make changes now before it’s too late.
More initiatives like this one are needed. I have been teaching my 3 yr old numbers and the
alphabet since she was 6 months.
Another outstanding web site is http://www.khanacademy.org although it is for more advanced learning
they still offer basics like how to add and subtract.
As a parent, I fully support WISE math, in their goals and their mission. A parent, who only knows too well how bad the math curriculum and instruction is without our schools. A parent who had no choice by to provided home schooling on math, after school for 3 years, to provide the foundation that is sorely lacking in the current math curriculum for almost 15 years. As the years have rolled by, I could never have anticipate of what I thought in 2001, the curriculum and instruction could not get even worse than what it was in 2001, and it turned out that I was wrong. It did get worse, than in 2001, to where math achievement is nose diving as well as the foundation skills in arithmetic that are so essential to do advance math with ease, and proficiency.
Math Education is important and a lot of kids don’t know how to do it! Change the curriculum PLEASE!! Raise math requirements for teachers too because some don’t know how to teach math
Thank you so much for starting this. I see my son falling further and further behind in math because someone at a provincial level decided to experiment with our children’s math curriculum in elementary school. Fortunately for us my husband is a mechanical engineer and is very strong in math. We know there are lots of kids in this situation and we wish we could do more to help them.
I am gratified to know that I am not the only parent struggling with this curriculum. My daughter hates math, she is NOT receiving the foundations she requires for future success, I am struggling to make sense of the concepts myself so that I can help her (which is complicated because she is in French immersion), and I too am contemplating going to Kumon Math or elsewhere. I feel like our kids are guinea pigs, and by the time the pendulum swings back, it will be too late. I appreciate some aspects of this curriculum but the approach must be balanced with more traditional methods (ie. yes, good old rote learning and lots and lots of drills like in the “good ol’ days”)…
I support this initiative.
Why is this concept of Math only in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and why did parents not have a say to have this introduced in our schools? If bright students are struggling what about the students with a Learning Dissability are they just forgotten? Where do we go from here parents have to unite and stop this insanity. Now most children need to go to “Sylvan Learning Centre” or have a tutor my grandson has is at ” Sylvan” for the last 3 years because the method of teaching at school is so confusing and there is no choice but to seek help elsewhere.
Karissa Coghill, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I fully support this. I am tired of paying tutors to do a job that the school should be doing.
A combination of old and new is probably the best option. I hope enough people sign up with WISE Math so changes are made soon.
I am a parent of three bright children. I have watched them struggle with their “new math” homework and have to admit that it often doesn’t make sense to me either. My fifth grader hadn’t learned simple multiplication tables yet, so we had to work with flashcards at home. I think it is time for te government to admit this hasn’t worked and make some positive changes to math education.
Two of our children (grades 7 and 5) have been working on this program for three years now and it has been a continuous source of frustration for our family. In fact, we were told by a grade 3 teacher NOT to help our child with additional fundamental math at home as it would confuse him. We were given a text book to take home and follow along with lesson plans to maintain the strategies that were being taught. It is difficult to help at home as this program makes no sense.
Our older children that have recently graduated cannot help their siblings with this math.
We are concerned about what it is going to take to get our children back on track. We feel as though students are part of an educational experiment that is failing miserably.
Something must be done!!
One of my coworker tried to describe the new math to me that her daughter is struggling with at school. It seems like a very foreign concept to me to stray away from basic multiplcation tables, long division and algorthims. If the new math stays then I’m home schooling!
I am the president of the Society for Quality Education, an Ontario-based think tank that supports research-based teaching methods. As such, we support WISE Math.
I think it’s important to go back to the basics of Math.
I live in Regina, Saskatchewan.
I am a parent of a grade 4 student who was having trouble with the “new” math until I shows him the “old fashioned” way. Now he understands!
Tera W.
Any child that may have been strong in math, but weaker in reading comprehension is now going to struggle in math because they don’t understand what is being asked of them. We have two children doing this math and one that requires help with homework. As parents we have been extremely frustrated with trying to help with the homework. What can we do to improves their skills? Is it to late?
Hi Karen,
We have listed some suggestions for ways that parents can help their kids with K-8 material under “Resources” then “Instructional Programs for Teachers/Parents”. I hope this helps.
Anna Stokke
Chad Walliser, Regina Saskatchewan
Bryan from Winnipeg. I was teaching first year linear algebra at the U of W this year and I was asked by a student if he could quickly use a calculator on the midterm to calculate 326 x 9… I was initially so shocked that I didn’t know what to say. Now that I know the awful state of the province’s curriculum, I am more than happy to help out when I can.
My daughter is in grade 4. My daughter has always been a math whiz. Last year the new curriculum was introduced to her class. Her teacher combined the new math with the basics and she excelled. This year, it seems her new teacher is strictly following the new curriculum. She says my daughter is doing excellent with the new math. However, I’ve become increasingly concerned since the start of the 2011-2012 school year that she seems to have forgotten VERY BASIC math. We are spending time every evening practicing rudimentary math skills, things she knew 2 years ago. I have contacted the school board and spoke to the person in charge of the new curriculum. She said she has never heard of there being a problem. I was in tears when I hung up. It is discouraging, and strangely comforting, to know our situation is hardly unique.
Glenn
Regina, Saskatchewan
My kids are not school age yet so I hope working on this now will make a difference for them!
I’m parent of five (14, 13, 10, 7, 2) and 100% supporting this initiative. Really disappointed with my kids performance in Math . I was born and raised in the so called third world country before becoming citizen of this beautiful country but the truth has to be said: something is wrong and changes are needed before it’s too late; as an example when we moved here with my family my old daughter in grade 2 that time knew by heart the whole multiplication table from 1 to 10 and she was able to understand easily how to manipulate numbers by addition, division and multiplication … now in grade 9 she has difficult to resolve a simple math problem. As an educated parent good in math and sciences I’m still unable to teach my kids the way I learned because I’ve been told that am using old methods which are not respecting Canadian standard. It’s very frustrating and am looking for any positive move to improve our kids education.
Three children (6, 3, 2) and expecting one more. I can’t believe how inadequate “Math Makes Sense” is now that I have one in Grade 1. We’re being forced to do homeschooling at night. This curriculum was described to us as “math for poets”. Well, I have a Master’s degree in something closer to poetry than to physics, and I have to say, I don’t get it. My husband was a science major and he’s livid in his anger. Math is the touchstone for so much – computer programming, science of all kinds, engineering, etc – that it’s ridiculous to say that kids don’t need basic math skills because they have calculators. I shudder to think what my engineer BIL and accountant SIL will think when their 3 year old gets into the “Math Makes Sense” meat grinder.
I support this.
I am currently in the Pharmacy program at the University of Manitoba. Pharmacists in hospital are often responsible for calculating dosing regimens for critically-ill patients. This is as far as possible from an abstract application of math — mistakes result in sub-optimal treatment and possible harm to patients. Both an understanding of math and the ability to do rote operations with speed is necessary: the pharmacist must be able to gauge whether calculations done on a computer, PDA, or calculator have been made without error, and an understanding of the manipulation of algebraic equations is necessary to adapt “memorized” formulas to new or unusual situations. It is my experience that even the excellent students accepted to the faculty (entrance requirements for pharmacy are moderately high) struggle with basic areas of math such as working with logs and end up spending time doing remedial math work to become proficient in the math requirements for pharmacy practice.
This experience mirrors my previous experience at the University of Winnipeg, which I attended before I was accepted into the Pharmacy program. As a tutor and lab instructor in physics, calculus, and chemistry, a great deal of my time was spent teaching first-year students the basics of manipulating equations so they could work on course material without algebra difficulties getting in the way.
Grade school instruction that does not impart functional, well-practiced math skills to students effectively bars them from the natural and health sciences. Only those with access to tutoring or those willing to make an exceptional investment in time and effort will succeed at learning course material while overcoming their math deficiencies. Many students quit out of frustration while others get by with a “C” and default to a non-science degree.
As a parent, and Educator, I have found many gaps in the current Math program. Especially for beginning and middle years learners. It is very reminiscent of the whole language program except for math instruction.
Jodi Chmelnyk, Battleford, Saskatchewan
Mathew Block, (Regina, SK; soon to be Winnipeg, MB).
Sheila Kelly
White City, SK
Prof. Zisis Papandreou, Regina, Saskatchewan
I am a professor of physics and often frustrated by the unacceptably low level of math (and science) knowledge of incoming (from high school) students.
Down with new math is right, my son is home schooling this year they wanted to put him in grade 8 he was at a grade 6 math level, now that I taught him the old way he is catching up and loving that he finally gets it. I support this completely. There is more than just a math issue in our school. Whats our future going to look like if things dont change. Ugly.
Very much in support of this.
Ana Stipanovic, Winnipeg, college instructor and parent of 3 children (ages 4, 7, 9). I strongly support this initiative.
Down with the new!. Back with What works & has worked For many years!
Be happy to sing a petition to get rid of this new program
The new math system simply is not working! How many kids are we going to experiment on before our education system realizes this!
I support this initiative.
Keep up the good work.
Melody Ghahramani, Winnipeg MB
I would love to see this new math program discontinued…. that way our children have some what of a future! What a mess our future will be if it isnt!
Garth Huber, Physics Professor, Regina
We need to make serious changes in schools or our children will forever not understand and be discouraged to even show up at school. Our drop out rates will just go up if we don’t do something now! I have been an Educational Assistant in our school system and know the frustration our children go through trying to get math problems, when they just don’t understand they are more likely to be sick a lot or just not show up to school so they can avoid the embarrasement of not knowing what to do. Things needs to change NOW!
My wife and I recently attended a concert at Casino Regina. We ordered a couple of drinks before the show. The tab came to $12. I gave a twenty to the waitress who needed to use a calculator in order to calculate the correct change. I have run into other many situations where retail employees are unable to do single digit subtraction without the aid of a calculator or understanding approximately what the correct sale price should be if the cash register downs not ring up a correct discount price. Enough said about the success of the ways that math is presently taught.
I’ve seen my little sister struggle with the math she is learning and when I teach her how I was taught, it makes sense to her. As an engineering student I see that math skills are one of the most important skills in the world. Stop this nonsense and get rid of the current program. Stop experimenting with the future of our children.
Please save our kids from the MAN!
Big is the word here! Big school divisions with Big schools and Big budgets being sold books for Big bucks by Big business. Our schools are nothing more now then for looks, The kids for the most part are not learning as well as in the past due to new programs that a being tried. The kids today do not have access to school books and spend less time in class. The future looks like pretty bleak right now for our country and kids.
I will also sign a petition to save our kids from this and lack of teaching basic simple basic math.
THANK GOODNESS I am not the only one who sees how this “new math” is going to create a huge hole in childhood education! I have shown my daughters multiplication tables b/c she couldn’t understand what was being asked of her w/o knowing WHY she was doing it. This has to change NOW.
Is this program implemented Canada wide, what programs are other provinces using….this one is pretty frustrating.
After helping my oldest in math, and both of us becoming frustrated I convinced her to learn a few math concepts as I had been taught. She had no problem understanding math. Get rid of what is quite obviously not working. Thanks for starting this!
I say Math Makes Sense Makes NO Sense for most kids!!! This needs to change.
As a teacher, I fully support this.
Count me in! The Math Makes Sense program doesn’t work. I feel so bad for my kids trying to learn this system. It’s so confusing.
Very happy to see this being brought up as an issue. I ended up taking my daughter to Sylvan for help in math. Despite going to school everyday and having a wonderful report card, basic math skills were blatantly lacking. Scary to think we have up an coming professionals who need to know math for things like medication calculations and we are failing at teaching basic math in elementary!
It is terrible that our children have to go through this poor teaching methods and teaching staff who are not competent. I am too disgusted with our policy makers or government and education people who are responsible for the sorry state of our education. If you love your children take them out of Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Shame.